Trials That Should Not Have Happened   - The Who's Who Debacle and Tragedy

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1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT EASTERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
2 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - X
3 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, : CR 96 1016(S-1)
4 v. : U.S. Courthouse
5 Uniondale, New York BRUCE W. GORDON, WHO'S WHO
6 WORLD WIDE REGISTRY, INC., : STERLING WHO'S WHO, INC.,
7 TARA GARBOSKI, ORAL FRANK : OSMAN, LAURA WEITZ, ANNETTE
8 HALEY, SCOTT MICHAELSON, : and MARTIN
9 REFFSIN, :    TRANSCRIPT OF TRIAL
10 Defendants. :February 23, 1998
11 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - X 9:28 o'clock a.m.

12 BEFORE:

13 HONORABLE ARTHUR D. SPATT, U.S.D.J. and a jury
14 APPEARANCES:
15 For the Government: ZACHARY W. CARTER
16 United States Attorney One Pierrepont Plaza
17 Brooklyn, New York 11201
By: RONALD G. WHITE, ESQ.
18 CECIL SCOTT, ESQ. Assistant U.S. Attorneys
19 For the Defendants: NORM AN TRABULUS, ESQ.
20 For Bruce W. Gordon
170 Old Country Road, Suite 600
21 Mineola, New York 11501

22 EDWARD P. JENKS, ESQ.
For Who's Who Worldwide
23 Registry, Inc. and
Sterling Who's, Who, Inc.
24 332 Willis Avenue
Mineola, New York 11501
25
(cont'd)


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1 APPEARANCES (cont'd):

2 GARY SCHOER, ESQ. For Tara Garboski
3 6800 Jericho Turnpike
Syosset, New York 11791
4
ALAN M. NELSON, ESQ.
5 For Oral Frank Osman
3000 Marcus Avenue
6 Lake Success, New York 11042

7 WINSTON LEE, ESQ.
For Laura Weitz
8 319 Broadway
New York, New York 10007
9
MARTIN GEDULDIG, ESQ.
10 For Annette Haley
400 South Oyster Bay Road
11 Hicksville, New York 11801

12 JAMES C. NEVILLE, ESQ.
For Scott Michaelson
13 225 Broadway
New York, New York 10007
14
THOMAS F.X. DUNN, ESQ.
15 For Mr Shortcuts,
150 Nassau Street
16 New York, New York 10038

17 JOHN S. WALLENSTEIN, ESQ.
For Martin Reffsin 18 215 Hilton Avenue
Hempstead, New York 11551
19

20 Court Reporter: HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR
United States District Court
21 Two Uniondale Avenue
Uniondale, New York 11553
22 (516) 485-6558

23
Proceedings recorded by mechanical stenography, transcript
24 produced by Computer-Assisted Transcription
25

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1 M O R N I N G S E S S I O N

2

3 THE COURT: Good morning, members of the jury.

4 Have a seat.

5 We are almost starting a minute before 9:30, not

6 quite. We didn't quite make it. Not due to any fault on

7 your part. I am the one at fault, as always. Other

8 matters.

9 Are we interrupting the previous witness?

10 MS. SCOTT: Yes, your Honor. We have another

11 witness ready.

12 THE COURT: Members of the jury, we are going to

13 interrupt the testimony of Steven Watstein and take

14 another witness.

15 Incidentally, alternate juror number one,

16 apparently you have a doctor's appointment on Wednesday,

17 and you wish to leave 15 minutes early on Wednesday.

18 A reasonable request, which is granted.

19 Where is the witness?

20 MS. SCOTT: We are waiting for him, your Honor.

21 He disappeared for a couple of minutes.

22 THE COURT: We also have a new deputy courtroom

23 clerk this morning. I want to introduce Ilene. Not that
24 I fired my former. She is away for a week. Not
25 withstanding my efforts, and I practically granted a

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1 preliminary injunction preventing her from going. But she

2 left anyway.

3 JUROR NO. 4: She went to rainy Florida.

4 MS. SCOTT: The government calls Charles Smith.

5 THE CLERK: Please stand for the oath.

6

7 C H A R L E S S M I T H ,

8 called as a witness, having been first

9 duly sworn, was examined and testified

10 as follows:

11

12 THE CLERK: Please be seated.

13 Can you state and spell your full name for the

14 record.

15 THE WITNESS: Charles Smith, S M I T H.

16 THE COURT: You may proceed.

17

18 DIRECT EXAMINATION

19 BY MS. SCOTT:

20 Q Good morning, Mr. Smith.

21 A Good morning.

22 Q Can you tell us where you live?

23 A Jacksonville, Illinois.
24 Q And what do you do for a living?
25 A Self-employed.

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1 Q How are you employed?

2 A Nursing home business , methane gas, for development

3 of methane gas energy project, and organic fertilizer. We

4 are working on some special metal recovery projects.

5 Q These are businesses you are starting up?

6 A Businesses I have been involved in like 12 or fifteen

7 years developing.

8 THE COURT: I didn't get where you are from,

9 Mr. Smith? Sorry.

10 THE WITNESS: Jacksonville, Illinois.

11 THE COURT: Jacksonville, Illinois, as opposed to

12 Jacksonville, Florida.

13 THE WITNESS: Yes, and Jacksonville, Texas and

14 Jacksonville, Illinois, yes. Our mail goes to all those

15 places.

16 THE COURT: I didn't know there were so many

17 Jacksonvilles.

18 THE WITNESS: A tremendous amount.

19 THE COURT: Okay.

20 Q Now, Mr. Smith, have you ever had any contacts with a

21 company called Who's Who Worldwide?

22 A Yes, ma'am.

23 Q And did you eventual ly make a purchase from that
24 company?
25 A Yes, ma'am.

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1 Q What did you purchase from them?

2 A A membership, five year membership, and a CD-ROM.

3 Q Now, when were you first contacted approximately by

4 this company?

5 A '93, 1992, or '93.

6 Q And do you remember how you were first contacted?

7 A I was contacted by -- I received a card in the mail.

8 Q Now, what did this contact in the mail tell you to

9 the best of your recollection?

10 A That they had membership in an organization called

11 Who's Who Worldwide, and that I had been -- they were

12 contacting me about becoming a member, or being a member

13 or membership, joining the organization. I don't remember

14 exactly what the card said, but something along that line.

15 Q Now, did you return anything to the company?

16 A Yes, ma'am, I returned the card.

17 Q I am showing you Government's Exhibit 17-D, as in

18 Daniel.

19 (Handed to the witness.)

20 Q Do you recognize that, sir.

21 THE COURT: Is that in evidence?

22 MS. SCOTT: No, I am sorry. It is for

23 identification.
24 A Yes, ma'am.
25 Q What is that?

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1 A The card I received and filled out and sent back in.

2 MS. SCOTT: I offer Government's Exhibit 17-D, as

3 in Daniel.

4 THE COURT: Any objection?

5 MR. TRABULUS: No objection.

6 THE COURT: Government's Exhibit 17-D, for Dog,

7 in evidence.

8 (Government's Exhibit 17-D received in evidence.)

9 Q Mr. Smith, is the postmark visible on that item?

10 A No, ma'am.

11 Q Now, if you take a look at the front of it.

12 MR. NEVILLE: I am sorry, I can't hear

13 Ms. Scott.

14 MS. SCOTT: I will speak up.

15 THE COURT: Keep your voice up, Ms. Scott.

16 Q If you take a look at the front of the post cards in

17 the lower right-hand corner --

18 A Yes.

19 Q By the front, I mean the part that you have written

20 on?

21 A The backside, okay.

22 Q Sorry about that.

23 A Okay.
24 Q In the lower right hand corner do you see printed
25 there a small code?

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1 A Global L S1.

2 THE COURT: Global L S1?

3 THE WITNESS: It looks like L S1 or L SI. I

4 think it is L S1.

5 Q Now, what happened after you sent this card back?

6 A Someone called me. A gentleman called me.

7 Q Did you ever a conversation with this gentlemen?

8 A Yes, a lengthy one.

9 Q Did he say he was from Who's Who Worldwide?

10 A Yes.

11 Q What did this gentleman say in your conversation with

12 him?

13 A That my name had been put in nomination for

14 membership, and a publication directory that listed 5,000

15 business people worldwide.

16 Q Did he tell you anything else about the company?

17 A That there was exclusive membership, only about

18 5,000. And they published a directory to be distributed

19 worldwide also.

20 Q Now, what, if anything, did he tell you how members

21 were selected?

22 A He said they had to be -- your name had to be put in

23 selection by a member or a former member, someone who
24 might have been a member two years ago, or no longer was a
25 member, or had passed away, or by attrition only. It

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1 could have been anyone -- and I asked him when was I put

2 in, my name submitted? And he said there was no way of

3 knowing. It could have been several years ago or it could

4 have been recently.

5 Q What if anything did he tell you would happen to a

6 nomination after it had been made?

7 A They would submit it to the committee, and the

8 committee would accept it or turn it down.

9 Q You mentioned it was by attrition. What did you mean

10 by that?

11 A It was like two year membership, five year

12 membership, if you get dropped out or the person deceased,

13 and dropped out, it was limited to 5,000 per publication.

14 So someone had to leave the list out of the directory

15 before someone else could be submitted for approval.

16 Q Approximately how many membered, memberships did they

17 say were available for --

18 A That year he said maybe four or five. I remember

19 that because he said there were two deaths and they didn't

20 explain the others.

21 Q Did you ask any questions during the course of this

22 conversation?

23 A Yes.
24 Q Do you remember what you asked him?
25 A Yes.

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1 Q What was that?

2 A About ten times, who submitted my name.

3 Q What was the answer to that question?

4 A He couldn't give my name. That is not disclosed. He

5 said we can't tell you who it was.

6 Q What, if anything, did he tell you about what you

7 would receive for the money if you purchased a membership?

8 A I would receive a directory listing 5,000 people by

9 category of profession, and by -- with a plaque, and

10 credit card discount, travel discounts. And I wasn't

11 interested in some of those things that he did tell me

12 were offered.

13 Q Of the things said to you, what was the most

14 important thing said to you about the offer?

15 A Worldwide and someone had submitted my name for

16 nomination.

17 Q When you say worldwide, what do you mean by that?

18 A The methane gas energy project was something very few

19 people had been involved in. And like all research and

20 development, you need contact with other people involved

21 in that kind of a business. And I know the United States

22 is not only place in the world where people are doing

23 research and development on alternative energy projects.
24 So if it was worldwide, possibly Germany or some other
25 company, Japan, a lot of those places are far advanced

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1 fro m what we were doing. And there is a possibility I

2 would get contact with them. They told me the directory

3 would be distributed and for referral all over the world

4 internationally. And I was hoping for something like

5 that, to get contact with somebody of that type.

6 Q If in fact your name was obtained from a mailing list

7 and not by nomination or from a member, would you be

8 interested in becoming a member and would you be

9 interested in joining?

10 A No.

11 Q Why is that?

12 A I get things submitted two or three hundred items a

13 month that comes from a mailing lists, I am sure. I throw

14 them away because I just don't purchase off a mailing

15 list.

16 Now, if I know it came from a mailing list I

17 wouldn't. But he stated off the -- right off the

18 beginning it was a nomination.

19 Q You say you purchased a five year membership, do you

20 know what you paid for it?

21 A $291, or something like that, 290.

22 Q And how did you pay?

23 A A cashier's money order from a bank, Elliott State
24 Bank in Jacksonville.
25 Q I am showing you Government's Exhibit 17-A, 17-E,

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1 17-F, as in Frank, and 17-G, as in George, for

2 Identification.

3 (Handed to the witness.)

4 If you look first at 17-A, the pink sheet, can

5 you tell us what it is?

6 A The invoice I received from the company after they

7 said I was improved for inclusion in the directory.

8 Q If you look at the orange sheet next to it, and I

9 believe it is 17-E.

10 A I am color blind. Is that orange or yellow.

11 Q It could be either one.

12 17-E.

13 THE COURT: Before you get into that, 17-A, is

14 there a date on that, Mr. Smith?

15 THE WITNESS: Yes, invoice date 4/27/93.

16 Q Is 17-E, a copy of 17-A?

17 A Yes, ma'am.

18 MS. SCOTT: I offer Government's Exhibit 17-A and

19 17-E.

20 THE COURT: What was 17-E, for Easy, again?

21 MS. SCOTT: It is a triplicate copy, a carbon

22 copy of 17-A.

23 THE COURT: Any objection?
24 MR. TRABULUS: No.
25 THE COURT: Government's Exhibit 17-A, 17-E, in

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1 evidence.

2 (Government's Exhibit 17-A received in evidence.)

3 (Government's Exhibit 17-E received in evidence.)

4 Q Now, do those documents commemorate your purchase of

5 this membership from Who's Who Worldwide?

6 A Yes, ma'am.

7 Q Now, do you see in a box on the middle of the page on

8 17-A, the pink sheet, do you see a box that says a pproved

9 by?

10 A SMI. Yes, ma'am.

11 Q SMI is the letters typed in under approved by?

12 A Yes, ma'am.

13 Q Also, if you take a look at Government's Exhibit 17-F

14 and 17-G, can you tell us what those are?

15 A 17-F is membership confirmation.

16 Q Does your handwriting appear on that?

17 A Yes, ma'am.

18 Q And if you take a look also at 17-G, what is that?

19 A The personal money order from Elliot State Bank,

20 Jacksonville, Illinois.

21 Q That's the money order you used to pay for the

22 membership?

23 A Yes, and I wrote on the corner five year membership,
24 and it is on the check.
25 MR. WHITE: I offer Government's Exhibit 17-G and

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1 17-F in evidence.

2 THE COURT: Any objection?

3 MR. TRABULUS: No.

4 TH E COURT: Government's Exhibit 17-F and 17-G in

5 evidence.

6 (Government's Exhibit 17-F received in evidence.)

7 (Government's Exhibit 17-G received in evidence.)

8 Q Did you send that money order by mail to the company?

9 A Yes, ma'am.

10 Q I am showing you Government's Exhibit 17-B, for

11 Baker, which is in evidence.

12 (Handed to the witness.)

13 Q Have you seen that document before?

14 A Yes, ma'am.

15 Q Are you sure you had seen this document before?

16 A I am not sure I saw the document. The information

17 enclosed is submitted to the company, ma'am.

18 Q You recognize the information on that document?

19 A Yes.

20 Q Take a look at the upper right-hand corner on it, do

21 you see a name included there?

22 A It looks like Scott Michaelson. It is Scott,

23 M I C H A E L, but I can't make out the other letters at
24 the end of i t.
25 Q And the information on the rest of that document is

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1 information about yourself; is that correct?

2 A Yes, ma'am.

3 MS. SCOTT: May I publish

4 Government's Exhibit 17-A, 17-B, 17-E, F and G?

5 THE WITNESS: This is not in my writing. I

6 didn't fill this out.

7 MS. SCOTT: May I publish it to the jury?

8 THE COURT: Yes.

9 MS. SCOTT: Thank you.

10 (Whereupon, the exhibit/exhibits were published

11 to the jury.)

12 Q Did you receive a plaque, Mr. Smith?

13 A Yes, ma'am.

14 Q Did you receive the directory as well?

15 A Yes.

16 Q What did you do with the directory?

17 A Threw it in the corner.

18 Q Why is that?

19 A I was disappointed in it. It was not what they told

20 me.

21 Q Why were you disappo inted?

22 A The gentleman who had talked to me on the phone told

23 me I would come under a multiple listing, one, health
24 care, and second, research and development or energy,
25 alternative energy products. The writing was very small.

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1 You had to look for the listing to find it. You can't

2 just open it up to the health care section and find your

3 name. It is not readily available when you open the book

4 up. The printing is very small.

5 Q Were you able to find the person who nominated you?

6 A I didn't even look for him.

7 Q Did you use the book for networking?

8 A I glanced through it when I first got it possibly

9 maybe a half an hour to an hour, and that was the last

10 time I looked at it.

11 Q Did anybody ever call you and tell you they were a

12 member of Who's Who Worldwide and wanted to network with

13 you?

14 A No, ma'am.

15 Q You mentioned another purchase you made from the

16 company, can you tell us about that?

17 A Some months after this, I am not sure how long it was

18 I received a mailing where they had a CD-ROM, the

19 directory on a CD-ROM. And I did purchase that.

20 Q Did you use the CD-ROM?

21 A No.

22 My computer that I had wasn't set up to handle a

23 CD-ROM.
24 Q Did you receive any other items from the company?
25 A A couple of mailings about discounts, credit card

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1 discount, and that was about it.

2 MS. SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Smith.

3 No further questions.

4 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

5

6 CROSS-EXAMINATION

7 BY MR. TRABULUS:

8 Q G ood morning, Mr. Smith. My name is Norman

9 Trabulus. And I am the lawyer for the gentleman seated

10 next to me.

11 Ms. Scott asked you about things you received.

12 Did you ever receive any magazines, Tribute Magazines, do

13 you recall that?

14 A No, I don't.

15 Q Okay.

16 You bought the CD-ROM after you bought the

17 directory; is that correct?

18 A Yes.

19 Q And you had already seen what was in the directory at

20 the time you had bought it; is that correct?

21 A Yes, sir.

22 Q And the directory you got, sir, do you recall if it

23 had a red cover on it, or dark cover?
24 A I think it was red, but I am just -- but can I expand
25 a little bit on the CD-ROM.

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1 Q I will ask you some questions about it.

2 A Okay.

3 Q Now, at first, sir, I believe you indicated to

4 Ms. Scott that you were first contacted by mail; is that

5 correct?

6 A Yes, now I am sure that's the way.

7 Q At this point you are, correct?

8 A Yes, sir.

9 Q And there was a time that you filled out a

10 questionnaire for the postal inspectors, that they sent to

11 you; is that correct?

12 A Yes, sir.

13 Q And do you recall when you filled that out and asked

14 how you were contacted, you wrote down telephone call, and

15 followed up by a letter?

16 A Yes, sir.

17 Q And at the time that you filled out the

18 questionnaire, that was the way you remembered it, right,

19 sir?

20 A Yes, sir.

21 Q Since then, has anyone from the government told you

22 indeed if that's the way you were contacted another member

23 had indeed submitted your name?
24 A No, sir.
25 Q Nobo dy has told you that?

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1 A No, sir.

2 Q Now, I take it you have never seen the CD-ROM in

3 operation; is that correct?

4 A No, sir, I did not program the computer for it, no.

5 Q So, you are not in a position to say whether or not

6 it would have anything that would have been of assistance

7 to you; is that correct?

8 A Yes, sir, that's correct.

9 Q And you bought the book to enable you to do something

10 cumbersome for the book itself; is that correct? The book

11 was not broken down by industry, and you wanted to

12 research the material in the directory by industry or

13 topic; is that correct?

14 A Yes, that was my intention.

15 Q Before we get back to the CD-ROM, I will ask you if

16 you know any of these names whom I represent to you are

1 7 people from the directory.

18 First, your office again is in Jacksonville,

19 Illinois; is that correct?

20 A Yes, sir.

21 Q Do you know a Charlotte Sears, a unit manager of

22 Mobile Chemical in Jacksonville?

23 A I know Mobile Chemical, but I don't know her.
24 Q Okay.
25 You wouldn't by chance know, and I will spell

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1 this completely, Nigra, N I G R A, L Sink, like the sink

2 in a kitchen. She is indicated as being the director of

3 project Unique in the Morgan County Housing Authority in

4 Jacksonville, Illinois?

5 A No, sir I never heard that project.

6 Q Do you know someone with the last name, Virgil E.

7 Smith, County Commissioner?

8 A Yes, I know him.

9 Q Do you know he was a member of Who's Who Worldwide?

10 A No.

1 1 Q You know him personally?

12 A Yes. They didn't tell me --

13 Q M.A. Viles, V I L E S?

14 A Mike Viles, his father was the Buick dealership. I

15 don't know him personally. I know his father. But I know

16 him.

17 Q Okay.

18 Now, you indicated that you were told that there

19 were only 5,000 members?

20 A Yes, sir.

21 Q Could it have been 50,000 and you might have

22 misremembered it?

23 A I don't think so.
24 Q You were expecting among 5,000 people around the
25 world you might know someone in methane fertilizing?

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1 A Let's say I was hoping.

2 Q You weren't told that this was a book whose

3 membership was limited to the specific fields that you

4 were in, were you?

5 A No.

6 Q It was business type people?

7 A Business type people worldwide.

8 Q And the different fields that you were interested in

9 were several different ones, fertilizer; is that correct?

10 A Methane gas energy and organic fertilizer, yes.

11 Q And you indicated nursing homes and health care?

12 A Yes.

13 Q Several different fields?

14 A Yes.

15 Q If I were to tell you that the CD-ROM has over 5,000

16 entries for people in the health care businesses, would

17 that have affected your judgment as to whether or not it

18 might be useful to you?

19 A It depends, because at the time my main decision was

20 the methane gas project. I was in the nursing business at

21 that time for 15 years. I was more interested in the

22 methane gas organic fertilizer project, it was something

23 we were trying to get off the ground. The nursing homes
24 were already doing well.
25 Q It is only methane you were interested in or

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1 fertilizer in general?

2 A Sir, there is one project that would entail the

3 production of methane gas to produce electricity and heat

4 for greenhouse growth, herbs and spices, and vegetables,

5 and also to grow talapi fish.

6 THE COURT: How do you spell that?

7 THE WITNESS: T A L A P I.

8 They have to be raised in warm water, that's why

9 you need the methane gas to heat.

10 Q Mr. Smith, what I wanted to know is in terms of

11 contacting people in other businesses, you would have been

12 interested only in people who specifically listed methane;

13 is that it?

14 A No.

15 Q Or fertilizer in general?

16 A Methane gas and organic fertilizer.

17 Q Would it have affected your judgment concerning the

18 possibl e value of the CD-ROM if you were to know, and I

19 was going to show you my computer with

20 Defendant's Exhibit S in it, that there were 44 entries in

21 the book for people who had companies relating to

22 fertilizer --

23 A Uh-huh.
24 Q -- including a variety I am listing here, you can
25 pick any one of them, farm supplies, national earth

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1 quanos?

2 THE COURT: Natural earth what?

3 MR. TRABULUS: Guanos, G U A N O S.

4 Q Would you like to pick one of them?

5 A For what.

6 Q To see if they are involved --

7 A My son worked in farm service, and I talked to him

8 several times about the project.

9 Q You see there is an entry for the same business that

10 your son works for?

11 A My son-in-law, farm service cooperative.

12 Q That's one of them listed?

13 A Yes.

14 Q That would have been an appropriate person to

15 contact?

16 A No, I know they sell chemical fertilizer and make

17 more money off chemical fertilizer than they would off

18 organics, so they wouldn't be interested.

19 Q You found that out by speaking to your son?

20 A Son-in-law, and other guys.

21 Q If it turned out your son-in-law didn't work for

22 them, another way to find out is to speak to the person

23 there?
24 A After spending 12 years on this project, sir, I know
25 that Monsanto, and the major chemical companies do not

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1 want to talk about organic fertilizers. It wouldn't do

2 any good seeing those names anyway.

3 Q How about Dennis L. Kenzy, K E N Z Y, and he is the

4 owner of regional dist ribution of natural earth guanos,

5 and his major product service is selling organic natural

6 farm fertilizer, with an expertise in --

7 THE COURT: I don't know who is talking faster,

8 Mr. Smith or you, he may be talking faster than you are,

9 which makes for a new world record, Mr. Trabulus. Between

10 the two of you, I am going like a ping-pong game here.

11 MR. TRABULUS: I slept too well.

12 THE COURT: I would like to know what is a

13 quano?

14 THE WITNESS: A South African animal.

15 THE COURT: A South African animal?

16 MR. TRABULUS: It is my understanding that the

17 word "quano".

18 THE COURT: I didn't ask you. You are not under

19 oath?

20 MR. TRABULUS: No.

21 THE COURT: So don't tell me.

22 MR. TRABULUS: We may have a dictionary near that

23 we may want to take judicial notice of the contents of.
24 THE COURT: No, I want to just ask the witness
25 what it is.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5304
Smith-cross/Trabulus


1 THE WITNESS: I don't know. It sounds like a

2 lizard, iguana.

3 This is garden fertilizer.

4 You don't go selling --

5 THE COURT: You will have to repeat that last

6 statement.

7 THE WITNESS: It says organic natural farm garden

8 fertilizer. And we are a project producing 13 and a half

9 million gallons of liquid fertilizer a year, I will not

10 waste the time with gardeners. It is impossible to

11 market.

12 Q This particular entry shows natural farm?

13 A I see that.

14 Q He is not just a farmer but a regional distributor,

15 do you feel he might be interested in producing a

16 substantial amount?

17 A The type of fertilizer we would be producing would be

18 suitable for rice farming, for forestry or shrubbery,

19 beans and corns maybe. But mainly it would be rice

20 farming and shrubbery and trees, that kind of a thing, not

21 just general farming.

22 Q So, you were hoping among the 5,000 people in

23 business generally throughout the entire world, you might
24 find somebody whose field was just that specific as you
25 indicated now that would be suitable for networking with

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5305
Smith-cross/Trabulus


1 you, as opposed to someone who is a distributor of natural

2 farm fertilizer parts; is that correct, sir?

3 A I don't know, because I did not look to see at the

4 CD-ROM. I didn't know it was in there. So honestly, I

5 don't know.

6 Q I understand.

7 When you paid -- when you acquired the directory,

8 it involved an additional payment?

9 A Yes. The 291 includ ed the directory.

10 Q Included it from the outset?

11 A I think so. There was an additional $97 payment, I

12 think.

13 Q And certainly this was not a situation where you had

14 not been told initially what you would have to be paid.

15 You understood initially what you would be having to pay?

16 A The gentleman on the phone told me, yes.

17 Q Thank you.

18 MR. TRABULUS: No further questions. Thank you.

19 MR. JENKS: I have a few questions, your Honor.

20 THE COURT: Do you want to pick up the exhibits,

21 Ms. Scott, please?

22 MS. SCOTT: Surely.

23
24 CROSS-EXAMINATION
25 BY MR. JENKS:

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5306
Smith-cross/Jenks


1 Q Mr. Smith, did you ever ask anyone in Jacksonville,

2 Illinois whether or not they nominated you for inclusion

3 in this directory?

4 A No.

5 Q Did you ever ask or inquire of any of the people that

6 Mr. Trabulus just read to you, as to whether or not they

7 could have put your name in as a candidate?

8 A No.

9 Q So, is it fair to say as you sit here today you are

10 not even sure whether in fact someone had in fact

11 nominated you; is that correct?

12 A I just took the man's word for it. Evidently, if it

13 is not true, they lied, because I don't know if that's

14 true or not.

15 Q Let me ask you this: Just try to listen to the

16 question and see if you can answer it directly, yes or

17 no.

18 As you sit here today, do you know for sure

19 whether or not someone actually nominated you?

20 A No.

21 Q All right.

22 You had testified with Ms. Scott that the most

23 important thing for your purchase in the membership was
24 worldwide recognition, and that someone had nominated you;
25 is that correct?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5307
Smith-cross/Jenks


1 A Not recognition, no. That was not part of it.

2 Q Worldwide business contacts?

3 A Possibly, yes.

4 Q And that someone had nominated you; is that correct?

5 A Yes.

6 Q Now, you filled out a questionnaire for the

7 government; is that right?

8 A Yes.

9 Q Is it fair to say you filled out that questionnaire

10 in June of 1995?

11 A Yes.

12 Q You have to answer, sir.

13 A Yes.

14 Q Was your memory better in June of 1995 than it is

15 today?

16 A I wouldn't say -- I wouldn't know. As I thought

17 about this case -- in June of 1995 I had forgotten about

18 the thing altogether.

19 Q Let me ask you this: You related the sum and

20 substance you had with the salesperson here i n this

21 courtroom; is that correct?

22 A Pardon?

23 Q You told us about the conversation you had with the
24 salesperson; am I right?
25 A Yes.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5308
Smith-cross/Jenks


1 Q Just moments ago?

2 A Yes. But I don't know if the salesperson is in this

3 room. I don't know --

4 Q You have to listen to the question and answer yes or

5 no.

6 A You said he is in the room. And I don't know that.

7 Q I didn't ask you if he was in the room, sir. I said,

8 did you relate the sum and substance of a conversation you

9 had with the salesperson?

10 A Yes.

11 Q And you had that conversation back in April of 1993;

12 is that correct?

13 A Yes.

14 Q And we are in February of 1998, am I right?

15 A Yes.

16 Q Almost five years later, right?

17 A Y es.

18 Q Did you make any handwritten notes with respect to

19 the sum and substance of the conversation you had with

20 that salesperson?

21 A I wrote down when he called me, I wrote some notes on

22 the amount he is talking about, the money, of what it

23 would cost.
24 Q Do you have those handwritten notes with you?
25 A No.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5309
Smith-cross/Jenks


1 Q Did you throw it out?

2 A No, but I have boxes of stuff and I would have to

3 find them. I didn't look for them.

4 Q You didn't look for them before you testified today;

5 is that right?

6 A No.

7 Q And you didn't review them to see what you and he

8 said over the phone?

9 A I don't have to look at them. I remember.

10 Q You said worldwide business contacts and the issue of

11 nomination were the most important reasons why you had

12 purchased the membership; is that correct?

13 A Yes.

14 Q You recall filling out this questionnaire; am I

15 correct?

16 A The one --

17 Q Is that the one the government asked you to fill out?

18 A That Ms. Scott showed me, yes.

19 Q Let me ask you this: Do you recall being asked in

20 the questionnaire a question as to what was the primary

21 reason for your decision to purchase a directory or

22 becoming a member, do you recall?

23 A I don't know. There were several pages of
24 questioning. So I don't remember.
25 Q You don't remember all the questioning?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5310
Smith-cross/Jenks


1 A Not all of them, no.

2 Q Take a look at question 25 and see if that refreshes

3 your recollection as to whether you were asked that

4 question.

5 A Yes.

6 Q And do you know what you answered to the question?

7 A Yes. It says to read about some other people's

8 achievements.

9 Q The question says. What was the primary reason for

10 your decision to purchase a directory or become a member,

11 right?

12 A Yes.

13 Q And you responded in this questionnaire back in 1995,

14 to read about other people's achievements; is that

15 correct?

16 A In 1995, yes, I did.

17 Q So, that's a lot different than worldwide business

18 contacts and the fact that someone had nominated you,

19 isn't it?

20 A If you ask the gentleman who called me, we discussed

21 the facts of the nomination and worldwide distribution,

22 and that is what at the time that determined my

23 membership.
24 Q All right.
25 But when you had to answer this question in 1995,

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP , CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5311
Smith-cross/Jenks


1 what was the primary reason, you wrote down in your own

2 handwriting, to read about other people's achievements; is

3 that correct?

4 A Obviously when I got --

5 THE COURT: Hold everything.

6 On cross-examination -- you see, the first lawyer

7 that examined you, Ms. Scott, she is what we call direct

8 examination.

9 THE WITNESS: Yes.

10 THE COURT: She put you on the stand.

11 THE WITNESS: Uh-huh.

12 THE COURT: You are a government witness.

13 THE WITNESS: Uh-huh.

14 THE COURT: And as such, since she put you on the

15 stand, she cannot ask you leading questions. She has to

16 just ask you questions that are non-suggestive in form.

17 But on cross-examination under our rules,

18 Mr. Smith, the cross-examiner is permitted to ask very

19 narrow questions calling for a yes or no answer.

20 THE WITNESS: Okay.

21 THE COURT: Now, if you can't answer yes or no,

22 say so. Say exactly those words, I can't answer that

23 question yes or no.
24 THE WITNESS: Okay.
25 THE COURT: But don't make an explanation.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5312
Smith-cross/Jenks


1 THE WITNESS: Okay.

2 THE COURT: Because that -- the lawyer will move

3 to strike the explanation.

4 THE WITNESS: Okay.

5 THE COURT: This way, if you say I can't answer

6 yes or no, that shifts the burden back to Mr. Jenks to

7 decide what he is going to do.

8 THE WITNESS: Okay.

9 THE COURT: Understand our procedure?

10 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

11 THE COURT: Okay.

12 THE WITNESS: I cannot answer yes or no.

13 THE COURT: If you don't know or don't remember,

14 of course, freely say that. You un derstand?

15 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

16 Q Did you write down in response to what was the

17 primary reason for your decision to purchase a membership,

18 to read about other people's achievements, did you write

19 that down in 1995?

20 A Yes, sir. That's in my writing.

21 Q You put that in the questionnaire in direct response

22 to that question; is that correct?

23 A Yes, sir.
24 Q You didn't write in this questionnaire that worldwide
25 business contacts or the fact that someone had nominated

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5313
Smith-cross/Jenks


1 me was my primary reason to purchase a membership?

2 A No, I did not right that.

3 Q You did not write that?

4 A No, I did not.

5 Q Let me make sure I understand this.

6 You claim that this salesperson had told you that

7 there are approximately 5 ,000 members; is that correct?

8 A He said it was limited to 5,000.

9 Q 5,000 members.

10 And I think you said there are only four or five

11 memberships available; is that right?

12 A That's what he said.

13 Q You say as you sit here today that he said there were

14 two deaths, so there is an availability for you to get

15 into the registry; is that correct?

16 A Yes.

17 Q Did I hear you correctly?

18 A Yes.

19 Q All right.

20 You made three separate purchases concerning this

21 membership; am I correct?

22 A No.

23 Q Let's start from the beginning.
24 In April of 1993 you became a member, right?
25 A Yes.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5314
Smith-cross/Jenks


1 Q All right.

2 You paid -- you went and got a cashier's check

3 and sent it to the company, right?

4 A Yes.

5 Q And that was for some $290; is that right?

6 A Yes.

7 Q And then, sometime in 1993 you sent in another check

8 for $97 to obtain the registry; am I right?

9 A For the 291, I understood the salesman, included the

10 first payment on the registry, and the 97 was the balance.

11 Q The 97 was for the balance?

12 A Yes.

13 Q When you paid the 97, is it a fair statement to say

14 that you then got the registry, correct?

15 A Yes.

16 Q And when you saw the registry, you said, and I think

17 you said you threw it in the corner?

18 A I just tossed it in the corner, yes.

19 Q And before -- you had the registry before you bought

20 the CD-ROM; am I correct?

21 A Right.

22 Q So, in other words, you looked at that registry, am I

23 right?
24 A Yes.
25 Q At least a half an hour, an hour before you threw it



HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5315
Smith-cross/Jenks


1 in the corner?

2 THE COURT: One minute, Mr. Jenks.

3 You will have to wait a little bit before the end

4 of the question before you answer. Because if you answer

5 at the same time, while the lawyer is still finishing his

6 question, it is going to make it very difficult for us to

7 hear your answer.

8 THE WITNESS: Okay.

9 THE COURT: And for the reporter to record it.

10 He has to put down every single word exactly as it is

11 stated.

12 THE WITNESS: Okay.

13 THE COURT: And that makes it very difficult to

14 do that.

15 Q You look at the entry, looked at it before you threw

16 it in the corner?

17 A When I say I threw it in the corner, I have lots and

18 lots of books and papers, and I just set it aside.

19 Q The question is: Did you look at it before you set

20 it aside?

21 A Yes.

22 Q And you were able to see, were you not, that there

23 were at least 40 or 50 thousand members in that book; is
24 that correct?
25 A I didn't count them.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5316
Smith-cross/Jenks


1 Q You knew it was more than 5,000?

2 A Yes, I knew there was.

3 Q Just looking at the book you can tell it was more

4 than 5,000; is that correct?

5 A Yes.

6 Q And did it appear to you that there were maybe four

7 or five members each year for the book based on the size

8 of the book?

9 A At that time I didn't care.

10 Q When you threw the book aside, you realized at that

11 time there was certainly more than 5,000 members?

12 A Yes.

13 Q And there were many more members than you say the

14 salesperson told you over the p hone?

15 A Yes.

16 Q Nevertheless, you went out and sent a third check for

17 a CD-ROM; am I correct?

18 A Yes.

19 Q How much did that cost you?

20 A I don't remember the amount. I think it was 100 some

21 dollars. I am not sure.

22 Q A hundred something dollars.

23 You had paid 291, or thereabouts, right?
24 A Yes.
25 Q First payment?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5317
Smith-cross/Jenks


1 A Yes.

2 Q You made another payment of 97 dollars at some point

3 for the directory, correct?

4 A Yes.

5 Q And then on top of that you went out and purchased a

6 CD-ROM; am I right?

7 A Yes.

8 Q And you sent three separate checks to this company;

9 is that correct?

10 A Yes.

11 Q And is it fair to say that nobody called you up for

12 the $97 for the directory; am I right?

13 A At the time the gentleman explained it to me

14 originally, he said the balance would be $97 due -- I

15 think he said like November of that year.

16 Q Okay.

17 You got an invoice in the mail; is that correct?

18 A Yes.

19 Q You didn't question the invoice, you paid it?

20 A When I took the invoice I agreed to pay the fee.

21 Q Were you discontented from the time you took the

22 membership in April of '93, up until November of '93 when

23 you sent in the $97?
24 A I was dissatisfied with the directory when I got it,
25 yes.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5318
Smith-cross/Jenks


1 Q Before you got the directory, were you dissatisfied

2 with the directory?

3 A No, because I didn't --

4 Q So, you were happy from April of'93, to November of

5 '93, when you sent in a check for the directory, correct?

6 A I don't know how you mean happy. Why would I be

7 unhappy about it?

8 Q You weren't dissatisfied with the company, were you?

9 A No, because I had no more dealings with them since

10 April.

11 Q And then in November of 1993, you get an invoice in

12 the mail, a bill; is that right?

13 A Yes, sir.

14 Q And you make out another check and send it in for

15 '93; is that right?

16 A Yes.

17 Q And you get the directory, right?

18 A Yes.

19 Q And obviously you were still not discontented because

20 you then agreed to purchase a CD-ROM; am I right?

21 A Yes.

22 Q And nobody called you up from the company and tried

23 to persuade to you purchase the CD-ROM; is that correct?
24 A Yes, I got a call on the CD-ROM.
25 Q You got a separate call on the CD-ROM?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT R EPORTER
5319
Smith-cross/Jenks


1 A I got a letter originally. And then as I remember,

2 they said the CD-ROM was -- the contents on the CD-ROM was

3 what was in the directory with the updates.

4 Q Did you tell them that you were dissatisfied with the

5 directory?

6 A No.

7 Q Did you tell them that you thought there were 5,000

8 members and it turns out there is a hell of a lot more

9 than the 5,000 members?

10 A No, at that time it didn't do any good, I didn't pay

11 them.

12 Q Did you tell them you threw the directory on the --

13 A Yes, I told them --

14 Q You have to wait until I finish the question, I can't

15 fight with you here.

16 A Okay.

17 Q Did you tell them you were dissatisfied with the

18 directory when they called you up with respect to the --

19 when they called you with the CD-ROM?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Nevertheless you bought the CD-ROM of your own

22 volition?

23 A Yes.
24 Q And even after you were, quote, dissatisfied with the
25 directory?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5320
Smith-cross/Jenks


1 A Yes.

2 Q And did you tell them you were dissatisfied with the

3 directory?

4 A Yes.

5 Q Did you tell them that had to be more than four or

6 five memberships available?

7 A No.

8 Q Did you tell them that there couldn't have been just

9 two deaths to allow you to get in there?

10 A No.

11 Q So, the way I understand it is you were dissatisfied

12 with the directory, but nevertheless you agreed to

13 purchase a CD-ROM and spend another yet $100?

14 A Yes.

15 Q Obviously you weren't happy with the company or the

16 services provided by that point; is that correct?

17 A By that time -- I can't answer yes or no.

18 Q I will ask you an open ended question, and you can

19 say whatever you want.

20 Why would you purchase a CD-ROM after you get a

21 directory that you are not happy with?

22 A Because they said the CD-ROM was an update and it

23 improved, an improvement on the list, on the book.
24 Q You weren't satisfied with the book?
25 A I said you didn't put a multiple listing of health

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5321
Smith-cross/Jenks


1 care. They told me, the person on the phone says I am not

2 the one who publishes the book, I can't do the publishing

3 and I can't control it, but the CD-ROM is an upgrade and

4 improvement over the book. That's why I published the

5 CD-ROM.

6 Q Obviously when you purchased the CD-ROM, you still

7 had not wondered who had nominated you?

8 A I never did know.

9 Q Did you ever look in the book to try to figure out

10 who it was that did nominate you?

11 A No.

12 Q I want to make sure I heard you correctly. You said

13 you bought the CD-ROM and never put it in your computer?

14 A No.

15 Q Did you ever put it in anyone else's computer?

16 A No.

17 Q You just threw away $100 on something you wouldn't

18 use?

19 A I didn't throw it away, I thought I would use it.

20 Q You never used it?

21 A No.

22 Q How would you know you would be happy with the

23 contents of the CD-ROM unless you gave it a try to use it?
24 A Might have been, not the directory.
25 Q How could you be dissatisfied with the services the

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5322
Smith-cross/Jenks


1 company provided and you had voluntarily agreed to

2 pur chase if you didn't even try it out?

3 A I was dissatisfied with the directory.

4 Q You looked at the directory for a half an hour, an

5 hour?

6 A I said a half an hour. Maybe it was an hour. I

7 don't know.

8 Q You used the word -- you know, in your direct

9 testimony you used the word five or six times, I believe,

10 nominate; is that correct?

11 A Pardon me?

12 Q When Ms. Scott was asking you questions, you kept

13 using the word "nominated"?

14 A Yes my name was put in nomination.

15 Q I heard you say the word "nominated" five or six

16 times, right?

17 Taking a look at your questionnaire now,

18 3500-CES-1 for Identification.

19 A Okay.

20 Q Show me anywhere in the questionnaire any place where

21 you used the word nominated?

22 A It says my name was submitted for --

23 Q You have to listen to the question. Look at the
24 questionnaire, tell me if you wrote down the word
25 "nominated" anywhere in the questionnaire, the word in

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5323
Smith-cross/Jenks


1 your handwriting?

2 A I understand nominated being the same thing as

3 submitted is.

4 Q You are not answering the question.

5 A No, it is not in there.

6 Q You never wrote down the word "nominated" to a single

7 question there?

8 A Yes, I should say submitted for inclusion.

9 Q You didn't say nominated?

10 A No, I didn't.

11 Q You used the word in your testimony five or six

12 times, nominated?

13 A That's the word the gentleman used on the phone.

14 Q That's the word the government used?

15 A No, the man told me my name was put in nomination.

16 The government never told me what to say. The fact is it

17 was submitt ed for nomination. That's why I wrote

18 "submitted."

19 Q You never wrote the word "nominated" once on the

20 questionnaire?

21 A No, sir.

22 Q All right.

23 Now, Ms. Scott ask you if mailing lists were used
24 you would not have selected to be a member; is that right?
25 A No, sir.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5324
Smith-cross/Jenks


1 Q What if you had learned that selective mailing lists

2 were in fact used to target people in methane gas, health

3 care, organic soil, would you have joined then?

4 A Yes. But I wasn't told that.

5 Q You would have?

6 As you sit here today, if I told you that a

7 selective mailing list that targeted a specific segment of

8 your community or your line of work was used, would you

9 have become a member?

10 A I would definitely have considered it, yes.

11 MR. JENKS: Thank you very much.

12 I have nothing further, your Honor.

13 THE COURT: Anyone else.

14

15 CROSS-EXAMINATION

16 BY MR. NEVILLE:

17 Q Hi, Mr. Smith.

18 A Good morning.

19 Q I am Jim Neville. I represent Scott Michaelson.

20 Do you know what kind of case this is here, sir?

21 A Yes.

22 Q What kind of a case is this?

23 A Criminal.
24 Q You know these people are here on trial for criminal
25 charges?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5325
Smith-cross/Neville


1 A Yes.

2 Q When Mr. Trabulus was asking you questions about

3 networking, have you ever heard of the product, Miracle

4 Grow?

5 A Yes.

6 Q Do you know anything about the background of that,

7 how the person came up with that?

8 A No. I have just seen advertisements, commercial on

9 television.

10 Q I think it was developed by somebody and marketed and

11 they became very rich, didn't they?

12 A They oh, yes.

13 Q Let me ask you this: I know you work with

14 fertilizers, and I commend you for organic fertilizers.

15 That's good stuff.

16 If you were able to come up with something along

17 the lines of Miracle Grow, that you could market to

18 gardeners, people who either did or didn't have green

19 thumbs, in my case, I don't have one, would you then do

20 that, market it and potentially make money from that? Is

21 that something you would consider?

22 A I don't know. That was not the field I was in.

23 That's not what I was trying to develop.
24 Q But do you remember when Mr. Trabulus showed you the
25 entry in the CD-ROM, the gardeners, somebody having to do

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5326
Smith-cross/Neville


1 with gardening, do you remember that?

2 A Yes.

3 Q You said you wouldn't be interested in that, right?

4 A Yes.

5 Q What if along your lines of your organic fertilizer

6 you came up with something that you could market to

7 regular old gardeners, and would end up being something

8 like Miracle Grow, would you do that?

9 A I don't know. I didn't think of something like that.

10 Q It sounds like a pretty good idea, wasn't it?

11 A Yes. Whoever did that made a lot of money.

12 Q Maybe you and I can talk about this after you

13 testify?

14 A Hey, all right. You got 60 million dollars I will

15 talk. That's what it cost to build one of these plants.

16 Q When Ms. Scott was asking you some questions on

17 direct examination you talked about the most important

18 reason that you joined this Who's Who Worldwide, the fact

19 that you were nominated; is that right?

20 A Yes, sir.

21 Q I think one of the lawyers went over this already,

22 but you do remember filling out the questionnaire?

23 A Yes, sir.
24 Q That the government sent you, the postal inspector?
25 A Yes, sir.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5327
Smith-cross/Neville


1 Q And in that, do you remember the question being asked

2 what was the most important statement or representation

3 made by the government which affected your decision to

4 purchase a directory to become -- or become a member? And

5 do you remember saying, I do not remember?

6 A Yes, sir.

7 Q Did you talk to Ms. Scott before you got up there on

8 the witness stand today?

9 A Last week when I started making arrangements to come

10 out here.

11 Q How did you come out here?

12 A By Amtrack.

13 Q Did you pay for the train ticket?

14 A No.

15 Q Why didn't you fly?

16 A Because seven years ago I had some headache problem.

17 It affects my equilibrium. If I fly direct it is all

18 right. But if I have to circle or a holding pattern it

19 causes dizziness and I have problems sometimes flying,

20 going into New York I thought we might have some problem.

21 Q I thought you were like John Madden, he is afraid to

22 fly.

23 A I don't have a half a million dollar bus.
24 Q What do you call that, a Madden bus?
25 A I can't afford that.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5328
Smith-cross/Neville


1 Q Maybe if we make some money on the fertilizer we can

2 get one?

3 A Maybe we will have to make a kind of deal like that.

4 Q You never made any complaint to the better business

5 bureau or anything like that?

6 A We don't have any better business bureau in

7 Jacksonville. We are kind in the back of the woods a bit.

8 Q Before you got this kind of questionnaire from a

9 postal inspector, you never complained to anybody?

10 A Not over four, five hundred bucks, no.

11 Q Now, did you deduct that from your taxes by any

12 chance?

13 A Absolutely not, no.

14 MR. NEVILLE: Inspector Jordan, would that be

15 okay?

16 Q Why don't you do that?

17 A I have lots of expenses that I don't deduct from my

18 taxes.

19 Q You better get a better accountant?

20 A No, if I earn the money I don't worry about my taxes.

21 Q Now, the government asked you about anybody

22 contacting you from Who's Who. Any other members

23 contacting you; do you remember that?
24 A Yes.
25 Q And you said, no, nobody contacted you?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5329
Smith-cross/Neville


1 A No, they did not.

2 Q Do you know what the term networking is?

3 A Yes, computer, mostly, not always, but mostly. Not

4 always. Now it is. It hasn't always been that.

5 Q Let's say you and I end up doing the fertilizer deal,

6 that would have meant that you networked when you came to

7 this trial, right?

8 A Yes.

9 Q You know that kind of networking?

10 A Contact, yes.

11 Q You meet somebody and hit it big, maybe not, but you

12 give it a try, right?

13 A Right.

14 Q So, the very nature of networking suggests a

15 proactive, an active involvement is required on your part,

16 right?

17 A If I know who to network with.

18 Q Okay. But you have to do something. You have to

19 open the book, you have to read the CD-ROM, you have to

20 pick up the phone, you have to put your hand out to shake

21 that other guy's hands, stuff like that, right?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Networking is developing contact for business
24 purposes?
25 A Yes.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5330
Smith-cross/Neville


1 Q And it suggests that you have to work to develop that

2 net, where you are going to catch those business contacts;

3 is that right?

4 A I guess I was lazy there. I didn't do it.

5 Q I will tell you, I bet I am lazier than you are.

6 Now, how about, did you send out any press

7 releases on this when you became a member?

8 A No.

9 Q Do you know how powerful a press release can be when

10 you are announcing your slash into the world of organic

11 fertilizers, and you never know, you may have hit the

12 Miracle Grow or something?

13 A The press release sa ying I am included or inclusion

14 in Who's Who Worldwide would have been self gratifying. I

15 wasn't looking for that. Where I live at, there is nobody

16 involved in organic fertilizer, or locally, you know,

17 within a radius where I live at, it wouldn't have done no

18 good anyway as far as organic fertilizers are concerned.

19 Q Well, if you put out a press release gone further

20 out, a wider net of networking outside of your local area,

21 maybe you could have made a contact that way?

22 A I did not do that.

23 Q You can't do it?
24 A No. I didn't say I can't. I just didn't do it.
25 Q You were lazy, weren't you?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5331
Smith-cross/Neville


1 A To me that's self gratifying, patting yourself on the

2 back. I didn't want to do that, that's not why I did that

3 for.

4 Q Do you manufacture a good product?

5 A When we get the plant built, yes.

6 Q It is going to be an excellent product?

7 A Yes.

8 Q That you believe in?

9 A Yes, I wouldn't have spent 12 years on it.

10 Q It is your whole life?

11 A No. I have other projects I am involved in.

12 Q It is an important part of your life?

13 A Yes, definitely.

14 Q When you get the factory up and running, are you

15 going to do any advertising or public relations to it?

16 A I have other people handling that. I just do the

17 work.

18 Q You will have another person handling it?

19 A Yes. We have a marketer.

20 Q Do you have a name for it yet?

21 A Black Water Organics.

22 Q You will have some kind of public relations deal by

23 people who do that sort of thing to get the name up there,
24 get the name out there, right?
25 A No. The first plan we will d o our own -- I will have

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5332
Smith-cross/Neville


1 people working with me on the project that will do the

2 marketing. We will be contacting rice farmers in Arkansas

3 or Mississippi, because they have the farms. Until we

4 produce the full 13.5 million gallons a year, until we get

5 the full production, we don't need marketing to sell that

6 much. And the people I know in Arkansas and Mississippi,

7 they will make personal contact with the rice farms and we

8 will try to market the rice farms and a few large

9 nurseries. About 70 miles from us there is a one of the

10 largest nurseries in the mid-west, we will send people

11 there and try to market them and sell them.

12 Q When you first start out and your production is

13 relatively limited because you are first starting out,

14 your networkin g is going to be limited, because you don't

15 want to get more orders than you fill?

16 A Yes. It would be personal contact with the people

17 working with me now, with our prospective buyers.

18 Q And those personal contacts you have are your way to

19 start to spread the word on your product?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Now, what are you going to do -- what are you going

22 to do if your product turns out to be just as darn good as

23 you think it is?
24 A It is.
25 Q And it starts to catch on and starts to -- the word

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5333
Smith-cross/Neville


1 spreads? Are you going to market it further domestically?

2 A Yes.

3 Q And what happens if in Europe and South America, and

4 Asia, and other areas of the world decide that want also

5 to find out how it works, are you going to try to market

6 it worldwide?

7 A I already have people in Europe that I deal with,

8 that will handle the marketing and the development over

9 there.

10 Q You are planning on doing that?

11 A Yeah, eventually.

12 Q If it catches on you will let it go and see how far

13 it goes, right?

14 A Right.

15 Q I wish you luck.

16 A Thank you.

17 A lot of people haven't. Thank you.

18 THE COURT: Anything else?

19 MS. SCOTT: A brief redirect, your Honor.

20

21 REDIRECT EXAMINATION

22 BY MS. SCOTT:

23 Q Mr. Smith, do you remember being asked some questions
24 on cross-examination about answers that you gave to that
25 questionnaire?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5334
Smith-redirect/Scott


1 A Yes.

2 Q Now, specifically, do you remember being asked about

3 the answers that you gave to questions 25 and 26?

4 A 25, yes. 26 --

5 Q You were asked in particular what you had said as

6 your answer to the question, what were your primary

7 reasons for purchasing this membership?

8 A Yes.

9 Q And you were -- you wrote on that questionnaire that

10 the primary reasons were to read about other people's

11 achievements; is that correct?

12 A Yes.

13 Q Now, question number 26, you were also asked there,

14 what were the most important statements and

15 representations made by the company which affected your

16 decision to purchase; do you remember that question in the

17 questionnaire?

18 A Yes, ma'am.

19 Q Do you remember writing there that I don't remember?

20 A Yes, ma'am.

21 MR. NELSON: Objection.

22 THE COURT: Did I hear something?

23 MR. NELSON: Objection.
24 THE COURT: Overruled.
25 Q Do you r emember being asked about the testimony you

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5335
Smith-redirect/Scott


1 gave today, about the most important reasons you purchased

2 the membership?

3 A Yes, ma'am.

4 Q You remember testifying the reasons were the

5 worldwide exposure and the fact that your name was

6 submitted by a member?

7 A Yes, ma'am.

8 Q Now, if you take a look at question number 15 on that

9 questionnaire, would you read that for a moment to

10 yourself.

11 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the

12 proceedings.)

13 Q Now, the question asks you, if you were told anything

14 about how the company obtained your name, how does this

15 affect your decision to purchase or obtain a membership.

16 You see that there?

17 A Yes, ma'am.

18 MR. JENKS: Objection.

19 THE COURT: Wha t grounds?

20 MR. JENKS: She read something not in evidence,

21 she read the precise words, your Honor.

22 THE COURT: No. I rule it is in response to your

23 cross-examination in particular. Overruled.
24 Q Now, do you remember answering that question in the
25 questionnaire?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5336
Smith-redirect/Scott


1 A Yes, ma'am.

2 THE COURT: In other words, supposedly to

3 complete the picture, supposedly.

4 Go ahead.

5 Q If you look at the questionnaire, can you tell us how

6 you answered that questions, if you were told, how it

7 would have affected your decision to purchase?

8 A I said if someone went to the trouble to recommend me

9 I would join or submit or apply for membership.

10 Q So, back when you filled out the questionnaire the

11 fact that someone had recommended you wa s important; is

12 that correct?

13 A Yes, because I was -- can I go on?

14 Q Yes, you can.

15 A Because I was working on the project for many years,

16 most people thought we were a nut because we -- they

17 weren't interested in organic fertilizer and we got a lot

18 of doors slammed in our face. And I felt someone thought

19 the project was viable. They wouldn't submit for Charles

20 Smith, because I was involved in nursing homes. So I felt

21 it was someone who knew I was involved in the project,

22 someone that mattered or I had communicated with, and

23 that's why I did this, and I felt it was very important,
24 yes.
25 Q Do you remember being asked if you looked in the book

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5337
Smith-redirect/Scott


1 for who had nominated you?

2 A Yes.

3 Q And do you remember sa ying you had not looked for the

4 person who had nominated you in the book?

5 A Can I explain what I did when I looked in the book?

6 Q That's what we would like, thank you.

7 A First I looked for my listing. Then I probably spent

8 45 minutes to an hour total. And the people I saw through

9 those pages I looked at, and the names I looked at,

10 nothing said anything about organic fertilizer, methane

11 gas. And after I looked at many listings and I didn't see

12 anything, honestly I was very disappointed, because I felt

13 it was going to be under two listings, health care, and

14 alternative energy sources, that's what I understood when

15 the gentleman on the phone talked to me. When it wasn't I

16 didn't go any further in the book. I didn't look for

17 anybody's name that could have nominated me. They told me

18 the person may not be a current member, he may have been a

19 member a bunch of years ago, because in fact, the

20 attrition or the openings on the list, it could have been

21 years ago when the nomination or submission was made.

22 Q Do you remember being asked about mailing lists, the

23 use of mailing lists?
24 A They did not say anything about it at all.
25 Q Do you remember being asked the question?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5338
Smith-redirect/Scott


1 A Yes. I was asked the question, yes, ma'am.

2 Q Do you remember being asked if the mailing lists were

3 selective, if you would have been interested in joining?

4 A If it had been selective and they had told me that, I

5 would definitely have been interested in looking at it and

6 seeing it.

7 Q You mentioned if they told you that. Do you mean if

8 at the time of the purchase they told you that?

9 A If they to ld me at the time I was talking on the

10 phone with the gentlemen, if I was told there was a

11 mailing list involved, or people on lists interested in

12 these kind of projects, yes, I was interested.

13 Q Being recommended by another member, Mr. Smith, the

14 same thing as being taken from a mailing list?

15 MR. JENKS: Objection.

16 THE COURT: Sustained.

17 Q If your name was taken from a mailing list, is that

18 something you would have wanted to know at the time of the

19 purchase?

20 A Yes.

21 Q And were you told that at the time of the purchase?

22 A No.

23 MS. SCOTT: No further questions. Thank you.
24
25

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5339
Smith-recross/Trabulus


1 RECROSS-EXAMINATION

2 BY MR. TRABULUS:

3 Q Mr. Smith, when you spoke to the salesperson on the

4 phone , he didn't tell you that the company did not use

5 mailing lists, did he?

6 A No, sir.

7 Q As you sit here now you don't know one way or another

8 if your name came from a mailing list or nominated by

9 someone, such as the names of the people I read to you

10 before?

11 A Correct.

12 Q And I think you indicated some dissatisfaction with

13 the way your name was enteFF0000; is that correct, in the

14 directory; is that correct? Do I understand you were

15 dissatisfied with the way your entry read?

16 A Yes.

17 Q Was it your concern that you were not listed as being

18 involved in both fertilizers and nursing homes?

19 A Multiple listing, yes.

20 Q Well, the listing does indicate among your businesses

21 multiple things, does it not?

22 A Yes, sir.

23 Q It indicates among your businesses, health care,
24 energy products, nursing homes, organic fertilizer and
25 methane gas, does it not, sir?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5340
Smith-recross/Trabulus


1 A Yes, sir.

2 Q So, you are shown as having multiple businesses; is

3 that correct?

4 A Yes, sir.

5 Q Now, if I were to tell you that the CD-ROM indicates

6 497 people in the nursing home business including

7 yourself, does it affect the fact that you might have been

8 able to utilize that if you were to get it up on your

9 computer?

10 A Not really, because by 1984, 1995 I got out of the

11 nursing home business in the state of Illinois.

12 Q But you listed it?

13 A That was my expertise after 26 years.

14 Q If in fact it wasn't useful to you, it is certainly

15 not something you could in any way, shape or form blame on

16 Who's Who Worldwide; is it? You could have got --

1 7 A It could have been useful to me, we were working on

18 nurses homes in Mississippi and Louisiana at that time.

19 Some development projects may have located themselves down

20 there.

21 Q It might have been useful if some of the people of

22 the 497 were in Louisiana and Mississippi?

23 A And Arkansas, and some other states.
24 Q Before I went into the fertilizer industry, if I were
25 to tell you that those five, including yourself were

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5341
Smith-recross/Trabulus


1 specifically categorized in organic fertilizer, would it

2 have indicated to you it might have been useful to you if

3 you managed to get a computer to accommodate a CD-ROM?

4 A I don't know. Could I explain something?

5 Q No. You have to answer yes or no, if you can.

6 A I don't know. Would you repeat the question?

7 Q Sure.

8 If I were to tell you five out of the 500

9 listing, including yourself would have been organic

10 fertilizer, it might have made the CD-ROM useful for what

11 you were looking for?

12 A Possibly.

13 MR. TRABULUS: That's all.

14 MR. JENKS: Nothing further.

15 THE COURT: Anything else?

16 MS. SCOTT: Nothing else.

17 THE COURT: You may step down, Mr. Smith.

18 Please call your next witness.

19 (Whereupon, at this time the witness left the

20 witness stand.)

21 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, I believe I am going to

22 play a tape at this time.

23 THE COURT: Okay.
24 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, we just need one minute
25 to cue it up to the right place.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5342

1 THE COURT: Very well.

2 MR. WHITE: We are going to play Exhibit 1399.

3 The transcr ipt is 1399A.

4 The date is January 31st, 1995. And it was made

5 by an employee working at Who's Who Worldwide, and on the

6 tape is Frank Martin.

7 (Tape is played.)

8 THE COURT: Hold it a moment. I did not find

9 this, what number is this?

10 MR. WHITE: 1399.

11 THE COURT: Sorry.

12 Hold it a minute and start it over again.

13 THE CLERK: I believe one of the jurors is

14 missing the transcript.

15 THE COURT: All right, for the time being would

16 you look on with somebody else.

17 MR. WHITE: We have an extra one.

18 THE COURT: All right, give the extra one to the

19 juror.

20 You may proceed.

21 MR. WHITE: I will rewind it first.

22 (Tape is played.)

23 THE COURT: Is that the end of that tape?
24 MR. WHITE: Yes.
25 THE COURT: We will take a 15 minute recess.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIA L COURT REPORTER
5343

1 Keep an open mind, and come to no conclusions.

2 Please recess the jury, madam deputy.

3 (Whereupon, at this time the jury leaves the

4 courtroom.)

5

6 (Whereupon, a recess is taken.)

7

8 (Whereupon, the jury at this time entered the

9 courtroom.)

10 THE COURT: Please be seated, members of the

11 jury. I am sorry to have kept you. I had another matter

12 which was supposed to take place at 9:00 o'clock. There

13 was some mix up. They didn't come in at 9:00 o'clock.

14 You know what happens when they don't come in at

15 9:00 o'clock. They are in big trouble. So I said wait

16 until 11:00 when we take a break. I will have you and

17 everyone else in the courtroom wait for them when they

18 didn't come in on time?

19 You may proceed.

20 MS. SCOTT: The government calls Karen Wood.

21 THE CLERK: Would you say please raise your right

22 hand.

23
24
25

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5344

1 K A R E N W O O D ,

2 called as a witness, having been first

3 duly sworn, was examined and testified

4 as follows:

5

6 THE CLERK: Please be seated. Keep your voice

7 up. State and spell your name for the record.

8 THE WITNESS: Karen Wood, W O O D.

9

10 DIRECT EXAMINATION

11 BY MS. SCOTT:

12 Q Good morning, Ms. Wood.

13 A Good morning.

14 Q Can you tell us where you live?

15 A I live in Elkmont, E L K M O N T, Alabama.

16 Q What do you do for a living, Ms. Wood?

17 A Self-employed.

18 Q Can you tell us about your business?

19 A I own a corrugated box manufacturing company.

20 Q What is the name of that company?

21 A Kare Pac kaging, spelled with a K, K A R E.

22 Q How long have you had this business?

23 A I opened my business in October of 1990.
24 Q And how many people work in your business?
25 A 11.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5345
Wood-direct/Scott


1 Q Does that include yourself?

2 A Yes, ma'am.

3 Q Now, have you ever had any dealings with a company

4 called Who's Who Worldwide?

5 A Yes, ma'am.

6 THE COURT: Could you hold it just a minute,

7 Ms. Scott.

8 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the

9 proceedings.)

10 THE COURT: You may proceed.

11 MS. SCOTT: Thank you, your Honor.

12 Q Did you eventually make a purchase from that company?

13 A Yes, I did.

14 Q Can you tell us what you purchased?

15 A I purchased a five year membership, which to my

16 understanding was to include a pl aque, a directory, and a

17 work shop -- work shops, and networking program.

18 Q Now, approximately when were you first contacted?

19 A In July of 1993.

20 Q How were you contacted?

21 A I was contacted by letter, card and phone. I

22 received a letter at first. That included a card, a

23 postcard. I mailed the postcard in and followed it up
24 with a phone call.
25 Q Now, going back to the letter, do you remember what

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5346
Wood-direct/Scott


1 the letter said?

2 A The letter indicated that I had been nominated for

3 inclusion in the Who's Who directory. It had indicated

4 that I was confirmed, the nomination was confirmed by the

5 public affairs office on my accomplishments, that I had

6 done in the past few years. And then it listed -- it said

7 that the membership was very li mited, and at the bottom of

8 the letter it indicated that there was no cost to be in

9 the registry.

10 Q Now I am showing you Government's Exhibit 26-F, as in

11 Frank, for Identification.

12 (Handed to the witness.)

13 Q Do you recognize that?

14 A Yes, ma'am, that's the letter I received.

15 MS. SCOTT: I offer Government's Exhibit 26-F, as

16 in Frank.

17 THE COURT: Any objection?

18 MR. TRABULUS: I would like to see it, your

19 Honor. I don't see it in any of my pack of materials.

20 THE COURT: Very well.

21 (Document handed to Mr. Trabulus.)

22 MR. TRABULUS: No objection.

23 THE COURT: Government's Exhibit 26-F, for Fox,
24 in evidence.
25 (Government's Exhibit 26-F received in evidence.)

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5347
Wood-direct/Scott


1 Q Now, Ms. Wood, can you tell us the date on that

2 letter?

3 A The date on this letter is July 6th, 1993.

4 Q And could you read for us the first two paragraphs of

5 the letter.

6 THE COURT: Read slowly, please.

7 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

8 You were recently nominated for possible

9 inclusion in the Who's Who Registry of global business

10 leaders. We are pleased to inform you that on July 1st

11 the office of public affairs confirmed your inclusion in

12 the registry of global business leaders.

13 Q Now, you mentioned there was a card enclosed with

14 this letter when you received it?

15 A Yes, ma'am.

16 Q And you sent the card back?

17 A Yes, ma'am.

18 Q I am showing you Government's Exhibit 26-D, as in

19 Daniel for Identification.

20 (Handed to the witness.)

21 Q Do you recognize that?

22 A Yes, ma'am.

23 Q What is that?
24 A This is t he card I filled out, completed, filled out
25 and returned.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5348
Wood-direct/Scott


1 MS. SCOTT: I offer Government's Exhibit 26-D.

2 THE COURT: Any objection?

3 MR. TRABULUS: No.

4 THE COURT: Government's Exhibit 26-D, for Dog,

5 in evidence.

6 Q If you look at the address part of that postcard, do

7 you see a postmark on there?

8 A Yes, ma'am.

9 Q What does the postmark say?

10 A July 14th.

11 Q Of which year?

12 A 1993.

13 Q Is that when you mailed it?

14 A Yes, ma'am.

15 Q And if you looked on the other side of the postcard,

16 down at the very bottom of the right-hand corner, do you

17 see a little code there?

18 A Yes, ma'am.

19 Q Can you tell us what that code says?

20 A It says global dash L F.

21 Q F as in Frank?

22 A F as in Frank.

23 Q After you mailed the postcard back to the company
24 what happened?
25 A I received a phone call from the gentleman

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5349
Wood-direct/Scott


1 representing Worldwide.

2 Q Can you tell us what -- did you have a conversation

3 with this person?

4 A Yes.

5 Q Can you tell us what you were told about the company

6 and the memberships?

7 THE COURT: Can you hold it for a moment?

8 You said you received a phone call from a

9 gentleman?

10 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

11 THE COURT: Okay.

12 THE WITNESS: Can you repeat the question?

13 Q Can you tell us what this gentleman told you about

14 the company and the memberships?

15 A I don't recall that he told me a whole lot about the

16 company other than it was very reputable, it was

17 nationwide, a nationwide corporation, and had a very

18 reputable reputation.

19 As far as the membership, he said it was through

20 nomination. And I specifically asked at that time if it

21 was mailing list, and he told me, no, it was not. Because

22 I do not believe in mailing lists. He told me it was

23 through nomination.
24 I asked him who it was. And he, of course, told
25 me he couldn't get me that information.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5350
Wood-direct/Scott


1 Q When you say who it was, do you mean you asked who it

2 was that nominated you?

3 A Yes, ma'am.

4 Q And he responded he couldn't tell you that?

5 A No, ma'am. I don't recall -- he didn't give me a

6 name.

7 Q What were you told about the selection process in

8 general?

9 A Just that it was through a nomination. He did not

10 indicate -- I should have questioned him more, but I did

11 not. But he did not indicate how the nomination was done,

12 or how many nominees there were, just that it was -- that

13 I was nominated.

14 Q And what, if anything, did he tell you about what

15 happened to nominations once they were made?

16 A Just that if we were -- if I was selected, then -- by

17 the public affairs office, then I would be included in the

18 registry.

19 Q Now, what, if anything, did he tell you about the

20 number of memberships that were available?

21 A I don't recall him mentioning that.

22 Q Now, you mentioned briefly some of the things that

23 you expected to receive.
24 Can you tell us what this gentleman told you that
25 you would get for your money?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5351
Wood-direct/Scott


1 A The gentleman indicated that it would include the

2 directory, that there would be a small plaque, and the

3 most important thing to me at that time was the networking

4 and work shops that would be held in the Huntsville,

5 Nashville area, which are close to where my business is.

6 Q Now, the things -- withdrawn.

7 What did you hope to do with your membership, how

8 did you hope to use it?

9 A I was looking for the exposure in the networking

10 program, that I could learn of other vendors in this

11 networking program, other vendors, other suppliers and

12 customers.

13 Q If in fact your name had been obtained by a mailing

14 list and not nomination, would it have affected your

15 decision to purchase the membership?

16 A Yes.

17 Q What would have been the affect?

18 A I would not have purchased the membership.

19 Q Why is that?

20 A It is a pe rsonal choice, I do not like membership

21 lists.

22 Q By membership lists what do you mean?

23 A Listings, I go to work in the morning and my fax
24 machine is down to the floor where my name got on to some
25 kind of listing. I just don't do anything with listings.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5352
Wood-direct/Scott


1 Q Now, do you remember how much you paid for this

2 membership?

3 A It was $297.

4 Q How did you pay for it?

5 A I paid for it on my MBNA Visa card.

6 Q I am showing you Government's Exhibit 26-B, as in

7 Baker for identification.

8 (Handed to the witness.)

9 Q Do you recognize that piece of paper?

10 A Yes, ma'am.

11 Q What is that?

12 A This is the invoice to Kare Packaging for a five year

13 membership billing for $297.

14 THE COURT: Is there a date on that invo ice?

15 THE WITNESS: Yes, 7/21 of '93, which is the

16 invoice date, sir.

17 Q Is that the invoice you received from Who's Who

18 Worldwide after you made the purchase?

19 A Yes, ma'am.

20 Q And does it commemorate your purchase from Who's Who

21 Worldwide?

22 A Yes, for the $297.

23 MR. WHITE: I offer Government's Exhibit 26-B, as
24 in Baker?
25 THE COURT: Any objection?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5353
Wood-direct/Scott


1 MR. TRABULUS: No.

2 THE COURT: Government's Exhibit 26-B, for Baker,

3 in evidence.

4 (Government's Exhibit 26-B received in evidence.)

5 Q Did you receive a plaque?

6 A Yes, I did.

7 Q Did you receive a directory from the company,

8 Ms. Wood?

9 A No, I did not.

10 Q If you take a look again at

11 Government's Exhibit 26-B, there is a blue box on the

12 lower left-hand side?

13 A Yes.

14 Q And did you have an opportunity to read that blue box

15 in the past few days?

16 A Yes, ma'am, when I looked at that box even when I got

17 it, it prevented me from sending any more money. This in

18 the blue box indicates that there was an additional charge

19 of $97 for the directory, and I was under the impression

20 from the gentleman, when I talked to the gentleman who

21 represented Who's Who that the 297 was to include that.

22 According to this when I got this invoice it did not

23 include that. And I didn't wish to continue service with
24 them.
25 Q Now, when you say it did not include that, you mean

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5354
Wood-direct/Scott


1 it did not include the directory; is that correct?

2 A Yes, ma'am, it did not include the directory.

3 Q What did you do when you saw this language?

4 A I sent a letter saying I was not going to send them

5 another $97, that it was supposed to have been, as I have

6 understood, included in the 297 originally told to me by

7 the representative from Who's Who.

8 Q Did you receive a response to your letter?

9 A No, ma'am, I did not.

10 Q Were you contacted again by the company?

11 A No, ma'am, I was not.

12 MS. SCOTT: Thank you, Ms. Wood. I have no

13 further questions.

14 A Thank you.

15 THE COURT: Cross-examination.

16

17 CROSS-EXAMINATION

18 BY MR. TRABULUS:

19 Q Good morning, Ms. Wood. My name is Norman Trabulus.

20 A Good morning, sir.

21 Q Do you have a copy of that letter?

22 A Yes, sir, I do.

23 You mean a copy of the letter I sent back to
24 them? No, I beg your pardon. I do not.
25 Q Now, you sent a letter saying you weren't supposed to

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5355
Wood-cross/Trabulus


1 have to pay extra; is that correct?

2 A That is correct, sir.

3 Q And did you ever make any telephone calls as a follow

4 up to that?

5 A No, sir, I did not.

6 Q The telephone number of Who's Who Worldwide appears

7 on the invoice, does it not?

8 A Yes, it does, sir.

9 Q As well as a fax number?

10 A Yes, sir, it is.

11 Q Did you ever get a bill for a directory?

12 A No, sir, I did not.

13 Q Did you ever hear anything further from Who's Who

14 Worldwide?

15 A No, sir, I did not.

16 Q Did you ever get any magazines?

17 A No, sir, I did not.

18 Q Now, do you remember the name of the gentleman you

19 spoke to?

20 A No, sir, unfortunately I do not.

21 Q Does the name Stan Joel, J O E L ring a bell?

22 A No, sir, I am sorry, it does not.

23 MR. TRABULUS: Is 26-C in evidence?
24 (Counsel confer.)
25 Q I am going to show you Government's Exhibit 26-C for

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5356
Wood-cross/Trabulus


1 Identification.

2 (Handed to the witness.)

3 Q Do you see your name on it?

4 A Yes, sir, I do.

5 Q Do you see various information listed next to

6 preprinted listings, business, major product services?

7 A Yes, sir.

8 Q And is that consistent with the information you gave

9 to the person on the telephone?

10 A Yes, sir, it does.

11 MR. TRABULUS: I would offer 26-C in evidence at

12 this point.

13 THE COURT: Any objection?

14 MS. SCOTT: Your Honor, I do have an objection.

15 THE COURT: May I see it?

16 MR. TRABULUS: May we approach, your Honor?

17 THE COURT: Very well. Come up.

18

19 (Whereupon, at this time the following took place

20 at the sidebar.)

21 MS. SCOTT: Your Honor, this is one of the sales

22 order forms we offered as a whole group into evidence.

23 If Mr. Trabulus and other -- Mr. Trabulus and the
24 other defense attorneys objected to this document and the
25 other order forms. If Mr. Trabulus wishes this to be

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5357
Wood-cross/Trabulus


1 moved in evidence, we will insist to move in the other

2 sales forms as well that we offered at the time.

3 MR. TRABULUS: Your Honor, what happened with

4 regard to certain of the sales forms is that they were

5 introduced on a one by one basis by asking questions very

6 much similar to the ones I asked the witness. We now have

7 a witness here who has linked it along with the testimony

8 that was previously adduced concerning this and now there

9 is a foundation for its submission.

10 MS. SCOTT: There was already a foundation. We

11 established through the custodian that they were business

12 records of the company.

13 THE COURT: If they are business records and they

14 are relevant, why aren't they admissible? You say because

15 the defense objected to you putting in business records?

16 MS. SCOTT: They are not in evidence because the

17 defense objected to them.

18 THE COURT: What does it have to do with whether

19 or not this is admissible at this point right now?

20 MR. WHITE: Your Honor --

21 THE COURT: Unless you have a stipulation that

22 says by counsel on the record, that says they will agree

23 not to put any of these in evidence, that's another
24 matter. But I don't understand.
25 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, we wanted to point out

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5358
Wood-cross/Trabulus


1 the inconsistency.

2 The business record foundation has been laid.

3 But the defense objected to putting in any of them. Now

4 they selectively want to put in the ones they want. We

5 just wanted to point that out. If you want, we will make

6 a list of all the other ones that should be in and we will

7 offer those. But if they are standing here now and saying

8 all those order forms are business records and should be

9 put in, fine, we will withdraw our objection.

10 THE COURT: I don't understand. If it is a

11 business record and relevant it is admissible, right?

12 That's all I am interested in right now.

13 If you have other business records which are

14 order forms and relevant and they are business records,

15 they are also going in evidence if you wish. I am not

16 privy to this little side agreement or lack of agreement

17 that you have.

18 MR. WHITE: It wasn't an agreement, your Honor.

19 It was a couple of weeks ago they objected to it.

20 THE COURT: You mean I sustained an objection to

21 a business record going in evidence?

22 MS. SCOTT: Yes, your Honor you did.

23 THE COURT: Which one did I sustain?
24 MS. SCOTT: It was a whole list I read into the
25 record.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5359
Wood-cross/Trabulus


1 THE COURT: There must have been a different

2 reason for that. Maybe you didn't put a foundation in on

3 it.

4 MS. SCOTT: I believe your Honor reserved

5 foundation on it.

6 THE COURT: Do you deny it is a business record?

7 MR. WHITE: No.

8 MS. SCOTT: No.

9 MR. WHITE: W e don't have to take up the jury's

10 time with this.

11 MR. JENKS: Why don't you stipulate that Stan

12 Joel is not in the courtroom? That's why he is offering

13 it.

14 MR. WHITE: We don't have to waste any more time.

15 THE COURT: Excuse me.

16 I do not remember ever in my judicial career ever

17 not admitting a qualified foundation made business record

18 that was relevant. Now why I picked to do it in this

19 case, I don't know. I may have been out of my head at the

20 time. Maybe I was delirious or something. I don't

21 remember that at all. But I do know that this is that

22 business record and it is going into evidence.

23 MR. WHITE: Okay.
24 We will revisit the issue of a similar type
25 record later.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5360
Wood-cross/Trabulus


1 THE COURT: Surely.

2 MS. SCOTT: We will then withdraw the objection.

3 Thank you.

4

5 (Whereupon, at this time the following takes

6 place in open court.)

7 MS. SCOTT: The government withdraws the

8 objection.

9 THE COURT: Government's Exhibit 26-C, the order

10 form, in evidence. We will leave it that way.

11 (Government's Exhibit 26-C received in evidence.)

12 MR. TRABULUS: Does your Honor have it?

13 THE COURT: Yes, I do.

14 MR. TRABULUS: Thank you, your Honor.

15 THE COURT: What is the date on that,

16 Mr. Trabulus.

17 MR. TRABULUS: 7/19/93.

18 Q Ms. Wood, would you read the name that appears next

19 to the typewritten heading, account executive number one?

20 A Stan Joel.

21 THE COURT: Is that J O E L?

22 THE WITNESS: Yes.

23 MR. TRABULUS: Yes.
24 THE COURT: All right.
25 Q Below that account, executive number 2, there is a



HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5361
Wood-cross/Trabulus


1 blank; is that correct, madam?

2 A Yes. Yes, sir.

3 Q Now, madam, I think you indicated that it came a --

4 it made a difference to you if your name came from a

5 mailing list; is that correct?

6 A Yes, sir, that's correct.

7 Q As you sit there today, you don't know one way or

8 another whether your name came from a mailing list, do

9 you?

10 A No, sir.

11 Q And I think you indicated that the first you heard

12 from Who's Who Worldwide was by mail; is that correct? Is

13 that your testimony?

14 A Yes, sir, by letter.

15 Q Now, there was a time that you received a

16 questionnaire from the Postal Service back in June of

17 1995?

18 A Yes, sir.

19 Q And I am going to show you that, 3500-KLW-1.

20 (Handed to the witness .)

21 Q Now, you wrote a bunch of answers, handwritten

22 material in response to the questions; is that correct?

23 A Yes, sir.
24 Q And as to the first two questions you left them
25 blank; is that correct?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5362
Wood-cross/Trabulus


1 A Yes, sir, I did.

2 Q And the second question is: How were you contacted,

3 i.e., a solicitation letter, a telephone call, or both; is

4 that correct?

5 A Yes, sir.

6 Q Was that because of the time that you wrote this out,

7 you couldn't remember one way or another exactly how you

8 were first contacted?

9 A At the time I filled out the questionnaire, sir, I

10 did not have the letter in front of me. It was in a box

11 of files, things filed away from the previous year, 1993.

12 At the time I filled out the questionnaire I didn't have

13 in my possession the letter to know that the letter came

14 first, in which would follow up with the dates on the

15 invoices and everything that I was contacted by letter.

16 There was a card, and it was included.

17 Q Is there anything on the letter indicating it came

18 before the telephone call?

19 A No, sir.

20 Q Now, you indicated you were not told that the company

21 used mailing lists as a source of prospective members; is

22 that correct?

23 A They told me they did not use mailing lists.
24 Q You also indicated that you were told that the
25 company did not use mailing lists; is that correct? In

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5363
Wood-cross/Trabulus


1 the questionnaire?

2 A Correct.

3 Q Do you recall in the questionnaire being asked as

4 follows: If you were told anything about how the com pany

5 obtained your name, how did this affect your decision to

6 purchase a directory/membership? Do you recall that?

7 A Yes, sir.

8 Q And do you recall putting down at that point in time,

9 I don't recall?

10 A Correct.

11 Q So, in 1995 -- in July -- in June of 1995 when you

12 filled it out, is it fair to say at that point in time you

13 didn't recall if it made any difference to you at all if

14 you were told you were nominated by another member as

15 opposed to having come from a mailing list?

16 A It did, because in previous questions it asked if I

17 was told about a mailing list.

18 Q I am not asking you whether or not you recall what

19 you were told. I am asking you if tote you filled out the

20 questionnaire you didn't recall if it made any difference

21 to you?

22 A Yes, it would have made a difference.

23 Q But you wrote down i n response to a question of
24 whether it affected your decision to purchase, you wrote
25 down, I don't recall; is that correct?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5364
Wood-cross/Trabulus


1 A Yes.

2 Q Now, you never actually received the directory, I

3 gather?

4 A No, sir, I did not.

5 Q And you don't know what is in it?

6 A No, sir, I do not.

7 Q Anybody ever told you as to whether your name is in

8 the directory?

9 A No, sir.

10 Q I am going to tell you, or I will show you. I am

11 going to show you Defendant's Exhibit Q.

12 Take a look at page 951; right where my finger is

13 pointed.

14 A Yes, sir.

15 Q Is that for you, madam?

16 A Yes, sir, it is.

17 Q It has the information about your company?

18 A Yes, sir.

19 Q And --

20 A Not the way they told me it would be, no sir.

21 Q And the information you gave to them over the

22 telephone in speaking to them?

23 A Yes, sir, that's correct.
24 Q Ms. Wood, I take it you don't know at this point what
25 other names would have been in the directory that might

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5365
Wood-cross/Trabulus


1 have been of assistance to you in your reasons?

2 A No, sir, I don't.

3 Q In the letter you wrote, which you don't have a copy

4 of, the one that you complained about the initial amount

5 that you would have to pay --

6 A Yes.

7 Q In that letter, is it fair to say that you basically

8 just asked not to pay the additional amount, that you

9 should get the directory for nothing additional more?

10 A Yes, sir.

11 Q You did not request a refund at that point?

12 A No, sir.

13 Q After that y ou had no additional correspondence or

14 contact with the company?

15 A No, sir.

16 MR. TRABULUS: That's all I have.

17 THE COURT: Anything else?

18 MR. NELSON: Judge, I have a few questions.

19

20 CROSS-EXAMINATION

21 BY MR. NELSON:

22 Q Good morning, Ms. Wood.

23 A Good morning.
24 Q It is still morning, yes.
25 Do you recall after you received the

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5366
Wood-cross/Nelson


1 questionnaire from the government, being contacted by

2 telephone by a government agent, and having an interview

3 over the telephone?

4 A Yes, sir.

5 Q And that was in approximately August of 1996?

6 A It could have been.

7 Q And I believe you testified previously that you had

8 been told that you were nominated for inclusion in the

9 registry; is that correct?

10 A By a Who's Who representative, yes.

11 Q And I believe you told the government, based upon

12 questioning by Ms. Scott, that if you came from a mailing

13 list, that you would not wish to be included; is that

14 correct?

15 A That is correct.

16 Q Do you recall being asked this question over the

17 telephone on August 16th, 1996:

18 Question: If you were told that they were

19 nominated and said on an original questionnaire that this

20 affected their decision to purchase membership, question

21 A, would it have affected your decision to purchase if

22 your name had really been obtained from a mailing list?

23 And do you recall having given this answer: No,
24 not if the same results had been gotten; needed the name
25 out there on the street at the time. I was in business

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5367
Wood-cross/Nelson


1 one year at that time.

2 Do you recall having given that answer during the

3 course of your telephone interview with a postal inspector

4 on August 16th, 1996?

5 A I don't recall it word for word, no, sir.

6 Q Now, do you recall during the course of the

7 questionnaire that you filled out, a question 25, which

8 was a question, what were the primary reasons for your

9 decision to purchase a directory or become a member; do

10 you remember that question?

11 A Yes, sir, I do.

12 Q Do you recall giving the answer, to become known in

13 the business world?

14 A Exposure, yes, sir.

15 Q Would I be correct that at the time you first applied

16 for membership in Who's Who Worldwide, your primary

17 interest was the networking opportunities that it might

18 offer you?

19 A Yes, sir, that's correct.

20 Q Now, I belie ve you indicated that when you applied

21 for Who's Who Worldwide, you were -- you paid for it by

22 your MBNA Visa card; is that correct?

23 A Yes, sir.
24 Q And how did you acquire that Visa card?
25 A I don't recall. I had it for several years.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5368
Wood-cross/Nelson


1 Q Do you recall if it was as a result of a mailing that

2 you received from MBNA, or some other professional

3 organization, offering you the MBNA Visa card?

4 A It was probably through Ducks Unlimited

5 Organization. I am a lifetime sponsor of Ducks

6 Unlimited. If I get something from them I will

7 participate.

8 Q I am not familiar with what Ducks Unlimited is.

9 Would you please tell us?

10 A It is an organization which is a conservation for the

11 wetlands, for wildlife.

12 Q And they send out pub lications to members?

13 A Yes.

14 Q Do you receive publications from Ducks Unlimited by

15 being a member?

16 A Yes, sir.

17 Q And are you aware of the fact -- withdrawn.

18 I believe you indicated that when you received

19 the invoice which indicated you would have to pay an

20 additional sum of money, you at that point became angered

21 and made a determination that you would not pay the

22 additional sum of money, and would not continue on with

23 Who's Who Worldwide; is that correct?
24 A Correct, sir.
25 Q Now, since you had paid by your Visa card, did you --

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5369
Wood-cross/Nelson


1 I believe you testified you contacted the companies; is

2 that right?

3 A Correct, sir.

4 Q And you complained to the companies; is that right?

5 A Yes, sir, correct.

6 Q Did you at any time contact Visa in order to obtain a

7 refund from Visa?

8 A No, sir, I did not.

9 Q Are you aware that when you make a charge by credit

10 card, you can within a 60 day period of time contact in a

11 mail order type of purchase the credit card company in

12 order to obtain a refund?

13 A I did not know that at the time. I just recently

14 learned that that can be done.

15 Q Are you aware if a lot of people make those kind of

16 complaints, then the credit card company goes to the

17 company that uses it, like Visa, Master Card, American

18 Express, and says, we will not continue any longer with

19 you, because too many people are making complaints about

20 your product; are you aware of that?

21 A Understandable, yes.

22 Q And I believe you indicated that while you didn't do

23 that, you decided you weren't going to continue any

24 longer; is that right?
25 A Yes, sir.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5370
Wood-cross/Nelson


1 Q And now, had you continued, and I believe

2 Mr. Trabulus just showed you the registry which included

3 your name; is that right?

4 A Yes, sir.

5 Q And were you aware that another membership benefit

6 that was provided was a magazine which came out four times

7 a year called Tribute Magazine?

8 A I don't recall that, sir.

9 Q I would like to show you magazines that were in fact

10 distributed to the members. For the record I will show

11 Exhibits C, D and G at this time.

12 (Handed to the witness.)

13 Q You have never seen these magazines; is that correct?

14 A I don't recall ever seeing this.

15 Q That's because you cancelled your membership as soon

16 as you received the invoice or partially so; is that

17 correct?

18 A Yes, sir, yes, sir.

19 Q And I believe one of the things you indicated would

20 be very important in doing was being able to network so

21 you would get your name out there and see about other

22 people in the business world; is that right?

23 A That is correct.
24 Q And I would like you to look through the magazine and
25 specifically I am directing your attention for the record,

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5371
Wood-cross/Nelson


1 because we have to have all this reported here, this is

2 volume 4 from 1994.

3 Am I correct -- you can peruse it, we are going

4 one page at a time -- that there are various different

5 member profiles of people in the business world?

6 A That's evident here in the book.

7 Q Now, one of the other things I would like to ask you

8 is that is the Wh o's Who Worldwide similar to Ducks

9 Unlimited offered through MBNA, while that was a Visa, but

10 with a Master Card with the Who's Who Executive Club

11 embossation on it; do you see that?

12 A Yes, sir, I see it.

13 Q Would I be fair in stating that to some extent

14 because you were angered by the fact that because you were

15 going to be billed an additional sum of money, you didn't

16 have the opportunity to acquire these various different

17 publications because you didn't spend the additional $97;

18 is that right?

19 A That's true.

20 Q And had you paid the additional $97, you would have

21 received the registry including the name that was shown to

22 you; is that right?

23 A Possibly.
24 Q And you might well have been receiving four times a
25 year the Tribute Magazine which includes various different

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM O FFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5372
Wood-cross/Nelson


1 articles about members; is that correct?

2 A That's correct.

3 Q Now, were you aware of the fact that the way that

4 those articles get into the Tribute Magazine is because

5 there was a public affairs office in the company, and that

6 people could call in and offer themselves as prospective

7 candidates to have a profile done upon them; did you know

8 that?

9 A No.

10 Q And were you aware of the fact that the public

11 affairs office for an additional fee would put out a

12 profile for you that you could circulate in your local

13 paper, or you could disseminate in your geographical area,

14 were you aware of that?

15 A No, sir.

16 Q And not having paid the additional $97, you weren't

17 in a position to find out what those benefits were; is

18 that correct?

19 A That's tru e.

20 Q In a sense, you really didn't give the company the

21 chance; isn't that right?

22 A It should have been included in the $297. That's

23 what I was under the assumption of.
24 Q But it doesn't say that on the invoice, does it?
25 A No, sir, it sure doesn't.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5373
Wood-cross/Nelson


1 Q And you didn't ask Visa to get the money back for you

2 at the time?

3 A No, sir, I didn't know that at the time.

4 MR. NELSON: No further questions.

5 MR. JENKS: One or two, your Honor.

6 THE COURT: Sure.

7

8 CROSS-EXAMINATION

9 BY MR. JENKS:

10 Q Is it fair, Ms. Wood, you got the invoice explaining

11 the $97 billing right after you became a member; is that

12 fair?

13 A Yes, sir.

14 Q And let me ask you this: The primary reason you

15 really jo ined was exposure?

16 A Yes.

17 Q And to get your name out there as a female business

18 owner; is that right?

19 A That is correct.

20 Q And is it also fair to say that you were hoping to

21 network with other female business executives?

22 A Not necessarily female executives.

23 Q Well, with other business owners as yourself?
24 A Correct.
25 Q And if your name came from a selective mailing list

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5374
Wood-cross/Jenks


1 of female presidents or owners of corporations, and you

2 were told that, would you have joined and become a member?

3 A No, no, sir, I wouldn't have.

4 Q What if you were told that your name was selected

5 from a highly selective mailing list of business owners.

6 Since you wanted exposure would you have joined under

7 those circumstances?

8 A No, sir.

9 Q Have you joined other organizations from mailings you

10 have got?

11 A Not mailings.

12 Q Have you purchased anything from a mail order

13 catalogue in the mail, such as LL Bean?

14 A No, sir.

15 Q Nothing at all?

16 A No, sir.

17 MR. SCHOER: I have one question.

18

19 CROSS-EXAMINATION

20 BY MR. SCHOER:

21 Q Ducks Unlimited, ma'am, how did you come to join that

22 organization?

23 A My husband had been a member of that organization for
24 many years.
25 Q And do you know how your husband came to be a member

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5375
Wood-cross/Schoer


1 of that organization?

2 A No, I didn't know him then.

3 Q Do you know whether or not he became a member of that

4 organization through a mailing?

5 A I have no idea. I didn't know h im at the time.

6 Q Do you know whether or not Ducks Unlimited sends

7 mailings to solicit people to join?

8 A They may.

9 MR. SCHOER: I have nothing else.

10

11 CROSS-EXAMINATION

12 BY MR. DUNN:

13 Q Good afternoon, Ms. Wood.

14 A Good afternoon.

15 Q My name is Thomas Dunn.

16 Ms. Wood, you testified that you have a fax

17 machine at work, and you walk in sometimes and there are

18 numerous fax from people soliciting you; is that correct?

19 A Yes, sir, correct.

20 Q The first contact you had with Who's Who Worldwide

21 was through the mail; is that correct?

22 A Yes, sir.

23 Q You didn't get any fax from them soliciting you; is
24 that correct?
25 A No, sir.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5376
Wood-cross/Dunn


1 Q And how many organizations do you belong to?

2 A The Chamber of Commerce, Ducks Unlimited.

3 Q No other organization? No women's organizations?

4 A No, sir, I do not.

5 Q No business women's organizations?

6 A No, sir, I do not.

7 Q You are in the corrugated box business; is that

8 correct?

9 A Yes, sir.

10 Q How do you get your customers?

11 A Through other customers or my present customers. I

12 don't have a salesman. It is by word of mouth. We don't

13 advertise.

14 Q You don't have a catalogue of your products?

15 A No, sir, I do not.

16 Q How long have you been in business?

17 A Since 1990.

18 Q Do you know that thousands and thousands of companies

19 in this company use mailing lists; do you know that?

20 A Probably.

21 Q The government discussed mailing lists with you, did

22 they not?

23 A Yes, sir.
24 Q And in fact, you spoke with Ms. Scott or M r. White
25 today before you came into the courtroom?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5377
Wood-cross/Dunn


1 A No.

2 Q When was the last time before you came into the

3 courtroom you spoke with them?

4 A Last evening.

5 Q And did you discuss your testimony with them today?

6 A Just a little bit, yes, sir.

7 Q And they talked about the reason you joined the

8 organization; is that correct?

9 A Exposure, like I had put on my form, yes, sir.

10 Q Is the term "mailing list" came up; is that correct?

11 A Yes, sir.

12 Q You received a plaque; is that correct?

13 A Yes, sir, I did.

14 Q You displayed that plaque?

15 A Yes, sir, I did.

16 Q You were proud to be in an organization called Who's

17 Who when you first learned about that; is that correct?

18 A I thought so, yes.

19 Q We ll, you did, didn't you?

20 A Yes, sir.

21 Q You were pleased?

22 A Yes, sir.

23 Q When you were contacted?
24 A Yes.
25 Q And you thought it would be real good for your

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5378
Wood-cross/Dunn


1 business; is that right?

2 A Yes, sir.

3 Q You put up a plaque on your wall and displayed it?

4 A Yes, sir.

5 Q People saw that plaque?

6 A Some.

7 Q Where did you display it in your home or your place

8 of business?

9 A In my office.

10 Q Do you have customers you try to sell things to come

11 into your place of business?

12 A Yes, sir.

13 Q They come and they talk to you about your product?

14 A Yes, sir.

15 Q And there were times when that plaque was up on the

16 wall and these people came and talked to you about your

17 pla ce of business; is that right?

18 A They don't come into my office.

19 Q Listen to the question.

20 Never did you have a person wanting to buy your

21 product come into your office, never in your life?

22 A Yes, sir, sometimes.

23 Q There were times when people come into your office in
24 the past concerning your product; is that right?
25 A Yes, sir.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5379
Wood-cross/Dunn


1 MR. DUNN: I have no further questions, your

2 Honor.

3 THE COURT: Anything else?

4 MS. SCOTT: I have redirect, your Honor. But may

5 I have a moment?

6 THE COURT: Sure.

7 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the

8 proceedings.)

9

10 REDIRECT EXAMINATION

11 BY MS. SCOTT:

12 Q Ms. Wood, do you remember being asked a question on

13 cross-examination as to whe ther you knew whether your name

14 had been taken from a mailing list?

15 A Yes.

16 Q And do you remember testifying that you didn't know

17 that?

18 A That's correct.

19 Q I am showing you Government's Exhibit 188, which is

20 in evidence.

21 I ask you to compare it to

22 Government's Exhibit 26-F, as in Frank, which is also in

23 evidence, and if you take a moment to compare those two
24 documents and compare them word for word.
25 (Handed to the witness.)

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5380
Wood-redirect/Scott


1 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the

2 proceedings.)

3 A It is the same, dated the same --

4 Q Are they identical except for the addresses to whom

5 the letters are addressed?

6 A That and the salutation, yes.

7 Q If you look at Government's Exhibit 188, do y ou see

8 some handwriting at the top?

9 A Yes, I do.

10 Q And can you tell us what that handwriting says?

11 A At the left on the top it looks like F A L A,

12 life-styles. And over to the right of Who's Who it has a

13 global L F and some numbers.

14 Q The term global L F, is that the same term you see in

15 the right-hand corner of Government's Exhibit 26-D, as in

16 Daniel?

17 A Yes, sir -- yes, ma'am, it is.

18 Q And the term "lifestyles" have you ever heard that

19 term?

20 A No, ma'am.

21 MS. SCOTT: Your Honor, may I publish

22 Government's Exhibits 188, and the other exhibits I placed

23 before Ms. Wood today?
24 THE COURT: Yes.
25 (Whereupon, the exhibit/exhibits were published

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5381
Wood-redirect/Scott


1 to the jury.)

2 Q Now, do you r emember being asked questions on

3 cross-examination whether you heard what the public

4 affairs office was doing at Who's Who?

5 I will withdraw the question.

6 Do you remember being asked questions about some

7 of the functions performed by the public affairs office?

8 A Yes.

9 Q Do you remember being asked whether you knew that

10 they published a magazine?

11 A Yes.

12 Q And do you remember being asked whether you received

13 this magazine?

14 A Yes, ma'am.

15 Q Do you remember it was suggested you didn't receive

16 the magazine because you didn't pay the additional $97?

17 A Yes, ma'am.

18 Q Can you tell us what you believed you were purchasing

19 when you made the $297 when you first made the purchase?

20 A When I talked to the gentleman regarding the $297, I

21 was under the assumption it was to be in the directory,

22 and wh ich upon looking at the directory, it is not the way

23 he told me it would be. It was to be by business, by
24 my -- by corrugated boxes, it is listed as Karen Wood,
25 which is the first time I see it. Nobody knows who Karen

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5382
Wood-redirect/Scott


1 Wood is, not then or now.

2 He said I was to receive a small plaque as well.

3 And the most important thing was the networking and the

4 exposure to be held, the work shops to be held in the

5 Nashville, Huntsville area.

6 If there were any magazines, I don't recall it

7 being mentioned at the time, or this credit card thing

8 here, I don't recall that that was ever mentioned at the

9 time. And I guess I would assume that I have learned my

10 lesson. I guess I would have assumed that the $297 would

11 have included all that.

12 Q And you didn't receive the directory for your $297;

13 is that correct?

14 A No, ma'am, I did not. All I received was the plaque,

15 which I do display only as a reminder not to get caught in

16 this again.

17 Q I was going to come to that.

18 Can you tell us when you put the plaque up?

19 A I put the plaque up when I got it. I was very proud

20 of it at the time.

21 Q Can you tell us why it is still hanging on your

22 office wall?

23 A It is hanging on the office wall right in view where
24 I receive it, because if I get phone calls or some of the
25 mail, I look up as a reminder that I learned a lesson

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5383
Wood-redirect/Scott


1 early in business not to be taken advantage of. Because

2 that's when I feel I was taken advantage of.

3 Q Now, you were also asked questions about what you

4 would do if you had been told that your name came from a

5 selective mailing list; do you recall those questions?

6 A Yes, ma'am.

7 Q Do you recall saying you would not have joined under

8 those circumstances?

9 A Yes, ma'am.

10 Q Had your name been taken from any kind of mailing

11 list, is that something you would have wanted to have been

12 told at the time you were -- at the time the membership

13 was being described to you initially?

14 A Yes, ma'am, because I would have respectfully

15 declined. It is a personal preference, and I just do not

16 like mailing lists, I am sorry. It is just a personal

17 preference. Mailing lists can be anybody about anything,

18 about any subject. It is a personal preference, but I

19 just do not like mailing lists. I would have respectfully

20 declined the gentleman's offer, had he told me your name

21 came from a mailing list, no matter whose name was on it.

22 It would not have impressed me.

23 MS. SCOTT: No further questions, thank you,
24 Ms. Wood.
25 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5384
Wood-recross/Dunn


1

2 RECROSS-EXAMINATION

3 BY MR. DUNN:

4 Q Ms. Wood.

5 A Yes, sir.

6 Q You are a successful business woman; is that

7 correct? Business person?

8 A Yes, sir.

9 Q Have you only made one mistake in this business

10 career, joining Who's Who, one mistake?

11 A No, sir.

12 Q The other mistakes, do you take little yellow

13 stick'ems and write them on the wall, and to remember the

14 other mistakes?

15 A No, but they didn't cost me $297.

16 Q How do you remember the other mistakes?

17 A They weren't as costly to me.

18 Q The other mistakes you make are like pennies here and

19 pennies there?

20 A No, sir.

21 Q You want to make them again?

22 A No, sir.

23 Q You want to learn from your mistakes?
24 A Right.
25 Q You don't have them on the wall?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5385
Wood-recross/Dunn


1 A I don't receive a plaque for them.

2 Q Isn't it a fact you have the plaque on the wall, only

3 to impress people and that's all?

4 A No. Not many people come into my office. I have a

5 conference room where people come into. Many few people

6 come into my office. You can have the plaque back.

7 Q You still have the plaque up there?

8 A Yes.

9 Q You have had it up for five years?

10 A Yes.

11 Q Five years?

12 A That's right.

13 MR. DUNN: No further questions.

14

15 RECROSS-EXAMINATION

16 BY MR. TRABULUS:

17 Q When people come into the office, do they ask you

18 about the plaque?

19 A No, because they can't see it.

20 Q Yes or no?

21 A No, sir.

22 Q Do you tell them you keep it up as a memorial how you

23 were duped?
24 A No.
25 Q You don't tell your customers that?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5386
Wood-recross/Trabulus


1 A No, sir, I do not.

2 Q Do you know if there are any other members of Who's

3 Who in Athens, Alabama?

4 A I don't know that.

5 Q Do you know a woman by the name of Gatha, G A T H A,

6 last name, C R O S S A N?

7 A She pronounces her name Gatha. I know the name, sir,

8 yes.

9 Q And do you know whether she is in Who's Who

10 Worldwide?

11 A No, sir, I do not.

12 Q If I were to tell you that she is, do you think she

13 m ight have been someone you networked with not as a

14 potential customer but as a source of potential customers?

15 A I don't know.

16 Q How about Pamela Sanders, a realtor, do you know that

17 name?

18 A No, sir, I do not.

19 Q Certainly you wouldn't sell boxes to a realtor, but

20 someone in the realty business might know people who would

21 need boxes?

22 A Correct.

23 Q Is it fair to say that your distribution area is
24 fairly local?
25 A Yes, sir, it is.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5387
Wood-recross/Trabulus


1 Q If you were to know that there were 254 people in the

2 directory, whose businesses involved packaging, including

3 some with corrugated cardboard, would that have affected

4 the value of it, having your name out there?

5 A No, sir.

6 Q Is it possible that some of those peop le -- that you

7 would have been interested in contacting some of those

8 other businesses for networking?

9 A Possible.

10 Q Would you ever consider in your business distributing

11 somebody else's product as an adjunct to your own?

12 A No, sir.

13 Q Is it possible somebody might have wanted to

14 distribute your product as an adjunct to theirs?

15 A Possible.

16 Q Now, when you paid for the membership, was that with

17 a business check or was it personal?

18 A No, sir, it was a credit card.

19 Q A business credit card or personal?

20 A A personal credit card, sir. I had not established a

21 business credit card at that time.

22 Q Do you know whether you took a tax deduction for it,

23 a business related expense?
24 A I don't recall.
25 MR. TRABULUS: I have no further questions.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5388
Wood-recross/Trabulus


1 THE COURT: Anybody else?

2 MS. SCOTT: I will ask from here, your Honor.

3

4 FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION

5 BY MS. SCOTT:

6 Q You were asked additional questions about the plaque

7 on the wall. Do you remember those additional questions?

8 A Yes, ma'am.

9 Q Do you remember being asked where it was hanging in

10 your office?

11 A Yes, ma'am.

12 Q Whether it was visible?

13 A Yes, ma'am.

14 Q Can you explain your answer to that question.

15 A It is hanging behind a door. It is visible to me

16 because the door is not completely closed. Few people

17 come into my office, so it is not visible to anybody

18 else. Very few people come into my office. If people

19 come in to see me, and we go into the conference room. I

20 will not say no business people come into my office, but

21 it is not readily available for them to see.

22 MS. SCOTT: I have nothing further.

23 THE COURT: Anything else?
24
25

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5389
Wood-recross/Trabulus


1 FURTHER RECROSS-EXAMINATION

2 BY MR. TRABULUS:

3 Q You don't usher them out of the office and they don't

4 see the plaque?

5 A No, sir.

6 Q You don't keep it covered with a cloth?

7 A No, sir, not at all.

8 MR. TRABULUS: That's all.

9 MR. WHITE: Nothing further, your Honor.

10 THE COURT: You may step down.

11 (Whereupon, at this time the witness left the

12 witness stand.)

13 THE COURT: Call your next witness.

14 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, we have a tape, and I

15 think it is more than five or six minutes.

16 THE COURT: Very well. We will take a recess for

17 lunch.

18 Keep an open mind. Do not discuss the case.

19 Have a nice lunch.

20 You know that we are leaving shortly before 3:15

21 today.

22 (Whereupon, at this time the jury leaves the

23 courtroom.)
24 (Luncheon Recess.)
25

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5390

1 A F T E R N O O N S E S S I O N

2

3 (Whereupon, the following takes place in the

4 absence of the jury.)

5 THE COURT: My courtroom deputy clerk received a

6 request from the jury to find out how long this case is

7 going to take.

8 I have been asking that question, and I think we

9 owe them an answer on this.

10 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, I gave your Honor an

11 estimate on Friday.

12 THE COURT: What is the estimate?

13 MR. WHITE: The estimate is that we would consume

14 this week and next week. If we are not finished next we ek

15 we will probably be finished sometime the week after.

16 Your Honor, it is premised on the fact that I am

17 assuming there is very lengthy cross-examination for any

18 of these cooperators, like Mr. West made the tapes, and he

19 has been on the stand for a week. There are other people

20 in his category.

21 THE COURT: So, next week would be the week of

22 March the 2nd. The following week is the week of March

23 the 9th. So you think you will be through during the week
24 of March the 9th.
25 MR. WHITE: Yes, I do.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5391

1 THE COURT: I can't tell them too much. And I am

2 not asking the defense at all about anything, unless they

3 want to tell me. They don't have to.

4 MR. TRABULUS: Your Honor, my guess is, from

5 having spoken to defense counsel, that we are talking

6 about a defense case of maybe a week.

7 THE COURT: I will not go into that. I am not

8 telling them that at all.

9 MR. TRABULUS: Sure, not the jury obviously.

10 THE COURT: Of course not.

11 I will tell them that the government's case is

12 probably going to take the week of the 9th of March.

13 Bring in the jury.

14 THE CLERK: Jury entering.

15 (Whereupon, the jury at this time entered the

16 courtroom.)

17 THE COURT: Please be seated, members of the

18 jury.

19 I received through my courtroom deputy a request

20 from either one or more jurors to say, how long is this

21 going to be? That's an interesting question.

22 You will recall that we had questionnaires that

23 gave you certain estimates. And hopefully you will not
24 remember what the estimates were. But it is very hard to
25 determine the length of a trial, especially when i t is a

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5392

1 more complex kind of case, which this is, with the number

2 of parties.

3 I can tell you this: Probably, probably the

4 government's case will last into the week of March the

5 9th, probably that week.

6 Of course, as I told you, the defendants don't

7 have to put any case in. They have no burden whatsoever.

8 And you cannot in any way consider whether they do or do

9 not put in a case; absolutely not.

10 I have to also comment that I think the lawyers

11 have tried very hard to move the case along. You may not

12 think so, but from my vantage point -- which is more

13 experienced than yours -- they have been working very hard

14 and they have been trying to move the case. It just takes

15 this long. They have done a good job, all the lawyers, in

16 attempting to move the case expeditiously. And everybody

17 is quite aware, always aware, of your service, of the

18 extraordinary time that you are putting into this. And we

19 are deeply appreciative of that. And we ask you to be

20 patient. We are moving as quickly as we can, always

21 consistent with due process and fair trial, always

22 consistent with that. That's the most important thing.

23 So, you are to be commended again for your
24 patience, your diligence.
25 If there is any change in the time I will let you

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5393

1 know about it. That's my best estimate. Sometime in the

2 week of March the 9th. It might be longer than that. I

3 make no promises, I can't. But I will keep you posted.

4 You may proceed.

5 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, at this point we will

6 play a series of tapes. The first one i s Exhibit 1388.

7 The transcript is 1388-A. The date is December 21st,

8 1994. It was recorded at Who's Who Worldwide.

9 THE COURT: Just one minute, now.

10 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the

11 proceedings.)

12 THE COURT: You say that's 1388-A?

13 MR. WHITE: Yes.

14 THE COURT: All right. Let's proceed.

15 As usual, the jury is ahead of me at all times.

16 (Tape is played.)

17 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, the next one is Exhibit

18 1402. The transcript is 1402-A. The date is February

19 10th, 1995. And it was recorded at Who's Who Worldwide.

20 (Tape is played.)

21 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the

22 proceedings.)

23 MR. WHITE: We are just cuing up, your Honor.
24 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the
25 proceedings.)

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5394



1 MR. WHITE: The next exhibit is 1390. The

2 excerpts -- the transcripts are 1390-B and 1390-C. This

3 was recorded on December 23rd, 1994 at Who's Who

4 Worldwide. At one point in the middle of this I will have

5 to fast-forward to the next excerpt.

6 (Tape is played.)

7 MR. WHITE: I will stop for a second. I queued

8 the wrong one.

9 THE COURT: I didn't hear anything.

10 Did you intend for us to hear anything in this

11 Section of 1390-B? If you did, I was not personally able

12 to make out most of the words.

13 MR. WHITE: The part that was played is 1390-A,

14 and not B. That's our problem.

15 THE COURT: You have not started 1390-B yet?

16 MR. WHITE: No, your Honor.

17 THE COURT: The jury may have heard every word.

18 They do all these things so well.

19 MR. WHITE: While we iron our technical

20 difficulties out, we wil l move on to the next tape.

21 THE COURT: That's all right. As long as you

22 don't ask me to help with it.

23 I think you ought to enlist Mr. Trabulus. He is
24 very good with all that.
25 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5395

1 proceedings.)

2 MR. WHITE: The next one is 1394.

3 THE COURT: We are not going to 1390-B, for

4 Baker, and 1390-C for Charley, that's out?

5 MR. WHITE: That's right. We have to queue that

6 out. Sorry about that.

7 THE COURT: All right.

8 MR. WHITE: We will skip to 1394.

9 THE COURT: Just one minute, now.

10 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the

11 proceedings.)

12 MR. WHITE: 1394 is from January 4th, 1995. It

13 was recorded at Who's Who Worldwide. On this one also, I

14 will have to fast forward to the next excerpt at several

15 points.

16 (Tape is played.)

17 THE COURT: I have to interrupt you. I don't

18 know where you are. I cannot find this.

19 MR. WHITE: I am sorry, your Honor.

20 The first excerpt was played, and in just a short

21 amount of time from where the asterisks are, which is on

22 the transcript.

23 THE COURT: I heard the first part, and I assume
24 the jury did as well and everybody else.
25 We have not reached the second part yet?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5396

1 MR. WHITE: That's correct. It is coming up.

2 THE COURT: We have not reached the second

3 paragraph on the first page of 1394-A, for Abel; is that

4 correct?

5 MR. WHITE: Correct.

6 THE COURT: Okay.

7 Will you raise your hand when we reach the next

8 section?

9 MR. WHITE: I will.

10 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the

11 proceedings.)

12 THE COURT: I see, we reached it.

13 (Tape is played.)

14 MR. WHITE: We will now play the third excerpt on

15 that transcript.

16 (Tape is played.)

17 MR. WHITE: Now we will play the next excerpt.

18 (Tape is played.)

19 MR. WHITE: Now the next excerpt.

20 (Tape is played.)

21 MR. WHITE: Now the next excerpt.

22 (Tape is played.)

23 MR. LEE: Your Honor, at this point I would like
24 to raise an objection, your Honor.
25 THE COURT: Yes.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5397

1 MR. LEE: To the exhibit being offered to assist

2 the jury. I think there is -- if you want me to approach,

3 or state it from here?

4 THE COURT: State it.

5 MR. LEE: I think there is an addition of words,

6 meeting with salespeople in parenthesis.

7 THE COURT: Meeting with salespersons?

8 MR. LEE: I don't believe it is in the tape, your

9 Honor. I believe it is something added by the

10 government. I am moving to have it stricken.

11 THE COURT: Why shouldn't I strike that? The

12 words within the parenthesis, "meeting with salespersons

13 continues." How do we know what this meeting is?

14 MR. WHITE: First of all, it is a guide, your

15 Honor. It is a meeting with salespersons, not all

16 salespersons. It is not an implication as to what it is.

17 THE COURT: What evidence is there as to what it

18 is? All we hear is a voice, two voices, or some three

19 voices maybe. But we don't know what it is, do we?

20 MR. WHITE: No. The defense stipulated to the

21 admission of the tapes and these transcripts to be used as

22 aids to the jury. So maybe Mr. Lee doesn't want it now,

23 but it was stipulated before.
24 MR. LEE: So it is clear because we are speaking
25 before the jury, the stipulation is as to what is in the

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5398

1 tape. These words are not in the tape.

2 THE COURT: Is there a written stipulation?

3 MR. WHITE: Yes, there is.

4 THE COURT: Can I see it, please?

5 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the

6 proceedings.)

7 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, there was, but I am just

8 trying to find it.

9 THE COURT: Anybody have it?

10 MR. LEE: We never got a copy.

11 MR. WHITE: We will look for it in the

12 transcript, too.

13 THE COURT: If you want to save time, we can

14 eliminate all these editorial comments and proceed.

15 Otherwise we have to see the stipulation, because I may

16 have to redact the transcripts.

17 ( Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the

18 proceedings.)

19 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, I will have to look for

20 it. I don't know how you want to proceed. Do you want to

21 take a five minute break?

22 THE COURT: No. We will not take a break, no.

23 Proceed with something else, or else let's redact all
24 the -- you will have to take back all the transcripts and
25 redact them, or tell the jury to disregard it for the time

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5399

1 being and we will redact them later.

2 MR. WHITE: I guess my question is -- do you want

3 to discuss it here?

4 THE COURT: All right, come up.

5

6 (Whereupon, at this time the following took place

7 at the sidebar.)

8 THE COURT: After I make this speech

9 complimenting all the lawyers, this is a big waste of

10 time.

11 MR. WHITE: Maybe Mr. Lee's recollection differs,

12 I am sorry. But the stipulation when I find it is going

13 to say, I don't believe there is any dispute, that

14 Government's Exhibits blank through blank, whatever the

15 numbers are, may be used by the jury as aids for the

16 review of the corresponding tape recordings, and those are

17 in the book that Mr. Lee is talking about. He -- I will

18 get the transcript, does anybody disagree with that being

19 the stipulation?

20 THE COURT: I don't hear a peep from the

21 defendants. They are from Missouri, Mr. White. Do you

22 know that there was a president that was from Missouri and

23 said that?
24 MR. WHITE: Yes, your Honor.
25 MR. TRABULUS: We didn't receive copies of the

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5400

1 signed stipulation. But I believe Mr. White is correct in

2 my recollection.

3 I have something else to bring up to save some

4 time.

5 THE COURT: One at a time. I can't encompass too

6 many things at one time. I know you can, and in quick

7 fashion, or rapid fashion, your Honor.

8 MR. WHITE: On page 3495 and 3496 of the trial

9 transcript I read the stipulation in evidence, and it

10 says, paragraph four of the stipulation,

11 Government's Exhibits 1300-A through 1381-A, and 1385-A,

12 through 1403-A, with the exception -- and I make reference

13 to an exception on 1300-A, which is not this. And then I

14 continued.

15 All those governments and defense exhibits are

16 transcripts and partial transcripts of the

17 above-referenced tape recording and may be used at trial

18 as aids for the jury. And I was reading the stipulation

19 at that time.

20 THE COURT: May I see it?

21 (Transcrip t handed to the Court.)

22 THE COURT: It seems, Mr. Lee, that that was the

23 stipulation. And it was to offer Exhibits 1300 through
24 1381, and 1385 through 1403, which includes the one at
25 issue, 1394-A.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5401

1 And I said at that time, any objection?

2 Mr. Trabulus said, no objection, your Honor.

3 And then he approached on another matter.

4 So, you didn't make any objection to the offer of

5 that transcript.

6 MR. LEE: Correct, Judge.

7 At this point if you are inclined not to require

8 the government to redact it, I would ask some sort of

9 redaction to the jury as to what use they should put this

10 transcript in, as an aid, and also for them to decide what

11 it is a tape of.

12 THE COURT: I will tell them that first of all

13 any transcript is not the evidenc e. The tape is the

14 evidence, the voices they hear. If the voices are

15 different from the transcript they are to go with the

16 voices.

17 Secondly, I will tell them that these little

18 notations were put in by the government and are not part

19 of the tape. It is the government's view of what occurred

20 here. All right?

21 MR. LEE: Yes, Judge.

22 MR. TRABULUS: Another thing about the procedure

23 that we are following at this point, your Honor.
24 Mr. White is playing excerpts from this tape. If
25 we had not had a stipulation, and we had a witness up

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5402

1 there identifying the tape, the man who made it, on

2 cross-examination I would be able to play the remaining

3 excerpts of the tape. The witness is not here, so I will

4 not have a cross-examination.

5 To s ave time I think it is desirable to play the

6 entire statements of Mr. Gordon on this and on similar

7 ones. There is nothing I want to keep out. In fact, I

8 plan probably to do that on my case. And it is just going

9 to be repetitive.

10 THE COURT: We will ask Mr. White if he will do

11 it. If he doesn't, you can do it in your case. You

12 stipulated to it. And he can try the case the way he

13 wants.

14 MR. TRABULUS: Your Honor, I stipulated to this

15 transcript being a part of the transcript. I did not

16 stipulate that I would agree that he can play excerpts

17 without also playing the rest of it, if under the rule of

18 completeness, the whole thing should come in. It is under

19 the Court's discretion, I believe, to require the

20 additional portions to be played at the same time.

21 THE COURT: I will not require him to do it. You

22 can do it. If yo u want to do it at any time similar to

23 cross-examination, when he gets through with the tapes, if
24 you want to play the tapes in the government's case, if
25 you want to, you may, so they would be together, if you

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5403

1 have no objection to that, or if anybody else has any

2 objection, I will let you do it. Or else do it on your

3 case, if you want to do it at the very same time, I will

4 let you do it. It is flexibility. Have you heard about

5 the famous element of flexibility in a federal court?

6 MR. TRABULUS: Yes.

7 THE COURT: Mr. Schoer knows all about that.

8 MR. TRABULUS: That's perfectly fine. I don't

9 know which version of the tape he is playing on a

10 particular day, I will try to have this queued up for

11 tomorrow.

12 THE COURT: I will let you do that. If Mr. White

13 wants to play the whole thing, fine.

14 MR. WHITE: I think the tape would be unwieldy,

15 this one is three hours long. This is only a short

16 portion of it.

17 THE COURT: We have to listen to it for three

18 hours?

19 MR. TRABULUS: Mr. Gordon's tape is only 20

20 minutes.

21 THE COURT: If we have to listen to this for

22 three hours I will get a job myself to learn how to do

23 this.
24 MR. TRABULUS: Mr. Gordon speaks for 20 minutes.
25 He is not Fidel Castro. He speaks for 20 minutes.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5404

1 THE COURT: You can do it that way if you want.

2 MR. TRABULUS: Thank you.

3

4 (Whereupon, at this time the following takes

5 place in open court.)

6 THE COURT: Members of the jury, you recall I

7 have explained the difference between the transcripts and

8 the tape recordings with the actual voices. I explained

9 to you that the real evidence in this case is the tape

10 with the voices. The transcript is an aid. It is much

11 easier to follow when you see it in writing.

12 However, the person who transcribed the tape may

13 be in error inadvertently. So, if you hear something

14 different from the transcript, you go by what you hear,

15 and not the transcript.

16 I explained that to you before.

17 One other thing, you will see the transcript,

18 1494-A, 1394-A, there is an error -- there is a notation

19 in parenthesis.

20 For instance, at the top it says parenthesis,

21 meeting with salespersons, end parenthesis. Do you see

22 that?

23 That was put in by the government. I don't know
24 if it was a meeting with salespersons or what it was.
25 This is the government's view of what this was. You do

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5405

1 not have to accept this. You will see later on that you

2 can find out whether in fact by the content in the

3 discussions, or by other evidence, whether it really was a

4 meeting with salespersons. So you take that part of it

5 with a grain of salt, so to speak, until you hear the

6 evidence.

7 Let's proceed.

8 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, on this one, we are

9 playing the next excerpt, and we are going to let it play

10 through. There is a brief part that is not appearing on

11 this transcript.

12 THE COURT: When you say the next excerpt, what

13 is the first two words, you notice?

14 MR. WHITE: No, your Honor. Let's talk.

15 THE COURT: This is two pages down, right? Okay.

16 This is on page 3?

17 MR. WHITE: Correct.

18 THE COURT: Let's talk?

19 M R. WHITE: Correct.

20 THE COURT: Okay.

21 MR. WHITE: And the let's talk, excerpt, will

22 continue. There will be a brief part not on the

23 transcript, and it will pick up with the next excerpt,
24 reading pitch.
25 THE COURT: Okay.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5406

1 (Tape is played.)

2 MR. WHITE: I am now advancing it to the next

3 excerpt.

4 (Tape is played.)

5 MR. WHITE: This is the next excerpt.

6 THE COURT: Where are we now?

7 MR. WHITE: We are now at 1390-C.

8 (Tape is played.)

9 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, this is 1392, the excerpt

10 is 1392-A. The date is December 29th, 1994, recorded at

11 Who's Who Worldwide.

12 I am sorry, the tape came out of the casing.

13 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the

14 proceedings.)

15 MR. WHITE: I have restored it to where it should

16 be. I am now playing 1392-A.

17 (Tape is played.)

18 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, the next one is 1381.

19 The transcript is 1381-A, the date is August 8, 1994,

20 recorded at Who's Who Worldwide.

21 (Tape is played.)

22 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, the next one is 1385.

23 The transcript is 1385-A. The date is August 25th, 1994,
24 and this was recorded at Sterling Who's Who.
25 (Tape recording is begun.)

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5407

1 MR. SCHOER: Objection. May we be heard on this

2 one? Is this in the stipulation?

3 MR. WHITE: Yes, it is.

4 MR. SCHOER: This is part of the stipulation?

5 MR. WHITE: I believe so.

6 MR. SCHOER: Judge, may we approach with respect

7 to this one?

8 THE COURT: Yes.

9

10 (Whereupon, at this time the following took place

11 at the sidebar.)

12 MR. SCHOER: I may be a little unclear. This is

13 not one of those that we indicated that we were not

14 stipulating to?

15 MR. WHITE: The ones you were not stipulating to

16 is 1382, 83 and 84.

17 MR. SCHOER: With respect to this tape, Judge, I

18 would ask that there be a limiting instruction that it is

19 only admissible against Sterling Who's Who.

20 THE COURT: That's fine.

21 MR. TRABULUS: Judge, in giving that limiting

22 instruction, would you also instruct that the tape that

23 had Ed Schaeffer's voice on it is only admissible to Who's
24 Who Worldwide, the tape before in the proceeding.
25 MR. WHITE: You lost me. Which one are you

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5408

1 talking about?

2 MR. TRABULUS: Not the preceding tape, the one

3 before that.

4 THE C OURT: The one that said Ed Schaeffer.

5 MR. WHITE: Yes, that's fine.

6

7 (Whereupon, at this time the following takes

8 place in open court.)

9 THE COURT: Members of the jury, on two tapes

10 before this, 1392-A, which said Ed Schaeffer, that is only

11 offered against Who's Who Worldwide Enterprises.

12 This next tape, 3500-A for Able is only offered

13 against Who's Who Sterling.

14 You may proceed.

15 (Tape is played.)

16 MR. WHITE: The next one is 1386, your Honor, the

17 transcript is 1386-A, the date is August 26th, 1994. And

18 it is recorded at Sterling Who's Who.

19 THE COURT: I assume that this is only offered

20 against Sterling?

21 MR. WHITE: Correct.

22 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the

23 proceedings.)
24 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, we have to fix the one we
25 are -- we were trying to play, so we w ill move to another

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5409

1 one.

2 We will move to 1389. The transcript is 1389-A.

3 The date is December 22nd, 1994. It is recorded at Who's

4 Who Worldwide.

5 (Tape is played.)

6 MR. WHITE: Now we will go to the next excerpt.

7 (Tape is played.)

8 MR. WHITE: I will advance it to the next

9 excerpt, the one that begins, listen as you know.

10 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the

11 proceedings.)

12 JUROR NO. 4: The heads are dirty and they keep

13 doing that.

14 MS. SCOTT: Shut it off, shut it off.

15 INSPECTOR PAGANO: Shut it off.

16 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the

17 proceedings.)

18 (Tape is played.)

19 MR. WHITE: Now the next one.

20 (Tape is played.)

21 MR. WHITE: This is the one where the tape cam e

22 out of the cassette, and we are just rewinding it to get

23 back to the right point.
24 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the
25 proceedings.)

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5410

1 MR. WHITE: This is Exhibit 1386, your Honor. We

2 tried to start it before, but we had the problem. The

3 transcript is 1386-A. The date is August 26th, 1994. And

4 it is recorded at Sterling Who's Who.

5 THE COURT: And it is only against Sterling; is

6 that right?

7 MR. WHITE: Correct.

8 (Tape is played.)

9 THE COURT: I think we will break at this time.

10 I don't know how long the next section is. As you know, I

11 have to leave to go to Brooklyn Law School to celebrate

12 the issuance of a doctor of law degree to a Brooklyn Law

13 School graduate, who is the only Brooklyn law School

14 graduat e ever to be appointed to a United States Court of

15 Appeals. And his name is the Honorable Frank X. Altimari,

16 whose chambers are here. He is in the court that sits in

17 review of me, among other things.

18 We will recess until 9:30 tomorrow morning. You

19 know you will not be working on Friday.

20 In the meantime, please do not discuss the case,

21 either among yourselves or anyone else.

22 Keep an open mind. Come to no conclusions.

23 Continue to be patient, punctual, prompt and perfect.
24 We will recess until tomorrow at 9:30.
25 Have a nice evening.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5411

1 (Whereupon, at this time the jury leaves the

2 courtroom.)

3 THE COURT: Do we know what is on board for

4 tomorrow, Mr. White?

5 MR. WHITE: Yes, Mr. Watstein will be back.

6 Mr. Searle, S E A R L E. And if we get that far after

7 that, I think Mr. Saffer, S A F F E R.

8 THE COURT: Very well. Thank you.

9 (Case on trial adjourned until 9:30 o'clock a.m.,

10 Tuesday, February 24th, 1998.)

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23
24
25

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
5412

1 I-N-D-E-X

2
W-I-T-N-E-S-S-E-S
3
PAGE LINE
4 C H A R L E S S M I T H..................... 5283 7
DIRECT EXAMINATION............................... 5283 18
5 CROSS-EXAMINATION................................ 5296 6
CROSS-EXAMINATION................................ 5305 24
6 CROSS-EXAMINATION................................ 5324 15
REDIRECT EXAMINATION............................. 5333 21
7 RECROSS-EXAMINATION.............................. 5339 1

8 K A R E N W O O D.......................... 5344 1
DIRECT EXAMINATION............................... 5344 10
9 CROSS-EXAMINATION................................ 5354 17
CROSS-EXAMINATION................................ 5365 20
10 CROSS-EXAMINATION................................ 5373 8
CROSS-EXAMINATION................................ 5374 19
11 CROSS-EXAMINATION................................ 5375 11
REDIRECT EXAMINATION............................. 5379 10
12 RECROSS-EXAMINATION.............................. 5384 2
RECROSS-EXAMINATION.............................. 5385 15
13 FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION..................... 5388 4
FURTHER RECROSS-EXAMINATION...................... 5389 1
14

15 E-X-H-I-B-I-T-S

16
Government's Exhibit 17-D received in evidence... 5286 8
17 Government's Exhibit 17-A received in evidence... 5292 2
Government's Exhibit 17-E received in evidence... 5292 3
18 Government's Exhibit 17-F received in evidence.. . 5293 6
Government's Exhibit 17-G received in evidence... 5293 7
19 Government's Exhibit 26-F received in evidence... 5346 25
Government's Exhibit 26-B received in evidence... 5353 4
20 Government's Exhibit 26-C received in evidence... 5360 11

21

22

23
24
25

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER



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The Who's Who Debacle and Tragedy
Thomas FX Dunn distinguished himself here as perhaps the Worst Human In The US